To ask for top tips on raising a child to sleep well?

[SmoothLawAbider]

We have a just-turned-3-year-old who was truly an awful sleeper until about 6 months ago. Woke 5+ times a night, breastfed to sleep until age 2, etc. etc. neither me nor DH slept a full night for 2.5 years. I blame a lot on ourselves, we were parents of a PFB and hated seeing her cry at any time.

When I got pregnant again we vowed to do things better this time, to put him down awake so he could learn to fall asleep by himself, to nightwean quite early, to not rush in the second he makes a sound. To make our lives easier in the long run. But now he's nearly a month old and it's hard to distinguish when/how you should do these things vs. when you should just do what he wants! I feed him every 2 hours overnight at the moment because he's a newborn and that's what you do with a newborn, right? Feed on demand?

So basically, those who raised good sleepers and nightweaned early, any tips? Things to do and at what age?

oh.. and btw, I stopped feeding my babies at night around 3 months, didn't stop them from waking up! Clearly not hungry, never gave them any water, but clearly not sleeping either 🤷

To be fair as a newborn DD would sleep just fine through noise but if I tried to put her down to sneak to the toilet forget it.

I think if your baby is screaming non stop 24/7, that's a real concern.

Don't creep around when baby is asleep - otherwise they'll never learn to sleep through household noises and will always be light sleepers

that's bollocks too

Number 3 arrived in a house with 2 under 5, 2 dogs and generally a lot of racket! 1 and 2 are very heavy sleeper - despite having had a quiet house, number 3 is the lightest sleeper in the world. Still to this day!

Download the huckleberry app! I originally used it to track breastfeeds and nappy output as well as keep track of pumping, but now I just log sleep. I genuinely get a notification half an hour before a nap or bed time and he is like clockwork with it! Yes I know, eye rolls all round at using technology over instinct but this is my third and let me tell you... Having that little notification pop up helps so bloody much when you are sleep deprived, run off your feet and can't remember the last time he woke up or if he's slept long all together today or was that long nap you're thinking about actually yesterday and not this morning? Considering I have form for things like putting milk in the washing machine drawer and almost eating cereal in fabric softener I'll take the eye rolls!

Oh, one thing I learnt was that everyone has different definitions of sleeping through the night. I thought of it as put them to bed at 7 & don't see them again until 7 but some people include dream feeds, putting in the dummy etc.

Also try not to focus on it too much even good sleepers will not sleep well if ill, upset, anxious, etc.

I think there are 3 kinds of sleeper out there:

1. babies who will be shit sleepers no matter what you do. The right approach might help them be a bit less shit but won’t make them fab sleepers.

2. babies who are inherently fairly decent sleepers (often sleep well during months 1-3) but then eg develop sleep associations by always being fed or rocked to sleep and turn into bad sleepers. The right approach will definitely help with these babies.

3. babies who are inherently fabulous sleepers and will sleep well no matter what. For these babies any approach will result in a decent sleeper (but parents of these babies who followed a specific regime will probably think it was because of what they did )

I think if your baby is screaming non stop 24/7, that's a real concern

That's an understatement! Try living it. Trust me, I was plenty concerned. She was a different child when she started getting a decent amount of sleep.

Don't creep around when baby is asleep - otherwise they'll never learn to sleep through household noises and will always be light sleepers

that's bollocks too

That's the conclusion I came to as well.

Haven't read the full thread but The No Cry Sleep Solution for Newborns is designed to answer your question, OP. Takes into account sleep training knowledge but discusses how to apply in a gentle way. Personally I've found it hard to apply all the advice as it's harder to be organised with 2 and some of it goes against my instincts (eg to remove the nipple when feeding to sleep-they suggest you do at least some of the time, I try but sometimes it feels like too much bother if it'll wake her up or mean) so DD 7 months is an appalling sleeper just like her sibling. But I am currently determined to have another go at it as I'm exhausted.

My two have always been fantastic sleepers. Neither of them have ever been in our bed. Was this the reason or was it luck? Probably luck!

One piece of actually useful advice that isn't dependent on temperament that someone gave me was that the bedroom should be for sleeping only. My two DD's have unstimulating bedrooms with only books/no toys and blackout blinds and keep them in a sleep sack/cot as long as possible. I can't guarantee it will make them sleep through, but good sleep hygiene is essential for good mental health as adults, so why wouldn't it be for kids? No screens after dinner/tea. Bath, teeth brushed, two books, songs while rocking then put them down awake. We also have a little rhyme each night where we say who loves our child "mummy loves x, daddy loves x, sister loves x. Night night, god bless, sweet dreams, see you in the morning, not too early". Seems dumb, but it is a signal that it is sleep time.

@confrontayshunme my baby had no toys in her room at all. Nothing but the bed and a chest of drawers with nothing on top. All toys were in the play room. The only object in there was the damn contraption that was supposed to play white noise to make her sleep 🙄

Still didn’t sleep.

She first slept through at 4.5, in a room that was stuffed full of exciting things.

When my baby / toddler woke, she wasn’t trying to play with things. Not once did she reach for a toy. She just wanted milk (in the early days) and not to be alone (when she was a bit older). All she wanted when she woke was me with her until she fell asleep again. It wasn’t toys in the room keeping her awake.

I love your little family phrase - your kids will have gone to bed feeling loved. But trust me, kids know it’s bedtime because you’ve put them in bed. A nice phrase means nothing to a non sleeper.

Oh and if I had a pound for the “put them down awake” advice...

It works, it really does - IF you have a baby that responds to that training, and many do.

But for me, it was right there with “let them grizzle”. Fine if they grizzle. They don’t all grizzle. Mine knew was being put down awake. The full on crying started before I actually let go of her in the cot! There wasn’t a chance for her to be “down” awake

I ended up feeding to sleep for 2 years, and cosleeping for 6. Both of which I loved, and I don’t regret at all. And at 12, she’s had years of settling herself in her own room. She just grew up - no rods were made for any backs.

I really do think the “down awake” advice is good. But as I have said before on this thread - if you’ve tried these things and they didn’t work, don’t feel shit. Do what gets you through.

I had a little saying for my baby, every night “darling girl, I’m so lucky to get extra time with you. Those poor mummies who don’t get to see their babies at 3am! It’s you and me alone in the world, and I love it and I love you”. (I said that so many times, trying to convince myself I didn’t mind being awake!!)

Patting was the thing that made me . I remember DD screaming blue murder in her cot while I was stood there patting and thinking "why is the patting doing nothing?"

These things help:
Routine
Not getting overtired
Putting down awake
White noise
Right temperature