To ask for top tips on raising a child to sleep well?

[SmoothLawAbider]

We have a just-turned-3-year-old who was truly an awful sleeper until about 6 months ago. Woke 5+ times a night, breastfed to sleep until age 2, etc. etc. neither me nor DH slept a full night for 2.5 years. I blame a lot on ourselves, we were parents of a PFB and hated seeing her cry at any time.

When I got pregnant again we vowed to do things better this time, to put him down awake so he could learn to fall asleep by himself, to nightwean quite early, to not rush in the second he makes a sound. To make our lives easier in the long run. But now he's nearly a month old and it's hard to distinguish when/how you should do these things vs. when you should just do what he wants! I feed him every 2 hours overnight at the moment because he's a newborn and that's what you do with a newborn, right? Feed on demand?

So basically, those who raised good sleepers and nightweaned early, any tips? Things to do and at what age?

I think you need to stop overthinking it all. It’s normal and healthy for babies to wake lots at night. It regulates breathing and heart rate and being close to you builds neural connections.

I did almost exactly the same with both of mine. Co slept, never left them to cry, held them to sleep during all naps, a routine in a general sense but not a strict one I obsessed about. Eldest was FF and youngest is BF. My FF one woke loads, even though she was night weaned (no more bottles) from 9 months. My BF one was sleeping through some nights from 3 months. He does wake usually once now (he’s 19 months), but it’s just to rumble around a bit. We still co sleep and will continue to do so until it doesn’t work anymore (co slept with older one til she was 3.5). He was bf to 15 months, though mostly night weaned around 13 months. He is by far the better sleeper of the two, and I can see no reason other than it’s just temperament (probably is a genetic component). My older one has generally slept great though from around 3/4.

I think they are who they are and they grow into it. There is no explanation for why mine were different (particularly as my better sleeper was my bf), except that it’s just how they are. I think not having any routine at all is bad (I have a friend who kept hers up til like 11 because her partner works shifts and she was lonely- she’s 6 and still wakes them up in the middle of the night demanding to go downstairs and watch films, etc). Short of that though all this ignoring them and not holding them so they learn to sleep better is probably just a lot of rubbish.

I think a lot of it is due to luck. We've had periods of blissful full night sleep (from 5 weeks) and then other times when we're up multiple times per night. We've maintained a good routine throughout.

The best thing we did was getting him to self settle, no more hours spent sat in a dark room!

My 2yo only started sleeping through consistently after his 2nd birthday. I am in the "you get what you get" camp. Everyone is individual - I, for example, fall asleep very easily and rarely wake in the night unless woken. My mum struggles to sleep and always has plus she's up and down a couple of times for various reasons. Sleep is a very individual thing!

Unfortunately people who do get good sleepers often think they have the magic touch or superior skills - I can remember earnestly being told to put DS in his crib with dimmed lights and comforter (no shit, why hadn't I tried that?! I always put him in a room with every light on and lots of noisy toys!!) or to keep things quiet at night (OF COURSE, there I was taking him clubbing at 2am when he woke up for the fiftieth time!) and I could even now happily brain the next person who trills "bath, bottle, bed!" as though that's the spell for a solid 12 night sleep (incidentally DS has never ever ever slept 12 hours solidly). I remember reading on here someone swearing the reason their baby slept through was because they always put pjs on them to signal bedtime - I mean, doesn't everyone do this??! You can try every trick in the book but sometimes your baby just isn't a sleeper!

My advice is to relax and go with it. Don't stress yourself out especially as the baby is so young still. I think the best thing to do is make sure everyone in the house is getting the chance to rest so make sure you get naps and lie-ins if you're doing all the night wake ups or split the nights etc. The only thing I'll do differently with DC2 is not worry so much about co-sleeping which, in the end, saved my sanity with DS and have much lower expectations of how much babies sleep (which, ime, is not that much and usually when you can't sleep too because you're driving/pushing the buggy/ out/ ill).

My first I ended up co-sleeping with, had a dummy, would sing and rock to sleep in evening...I was up all night and exhausted till she was two. I’ve had six more since then and am a firm believer in helping them sleep as well as they can...so as a newborn however tired I was I would p trying to lay them down, swaddled, after a feed or a cuddle...I started bedtime routine at 3 months of bath/massage with essential oils/book/milk/bed and whilst I fed on demand I would put straight back down when calm - no talking or eye contact at night and a very dark room. I feed on demand till I think they are getting enough during day to not need this, approx 8-9 months old, and then have water available only.
All of my other children have been bed at 7pm with this structure and depending on child are up 5am-7am...I have one who needs little sleep and one who needs lots, but the structure is the same.
My two year old is 7pm-7am and still has a nap, my 5 month old was a lot of v disturbed nights till 3 months since then we are bed at 7-7.30pm till feed somewhere between 00.30and2.30 and then straight back in cot till either feed at 4am or wake up at 7am. I haven’t started weaning her yet so an extra night feed has crept in but that’ll go.

I have one teen who sleeps as her favourite hobby, one teen who voluntarily gets up early...they have no devices in bedrooms after 8pm and bed between 10-10.30pm...though I know they sometimes read till the morning hours but I’ve never been able to get cross about that!
Oh, I diffuse essential oils in bedrooms too.

Constancy when tiny then train them to settle themselves from about nine months.
Clear expectations through toddlerhood and don’t allow game playing. Bedtime is for sleep. No excuses except illness.
From early childhood, exercise aplenty, a good calming routine, books rather than screens, a warm but not too hot room, decent filling suppers without sugar overload.
Using a specific bedtime songs sung by parent or tape (playlist now, I guess) of gentle lullaby music every night with a lavender pillow spray can induce a Pavlovian response. If you get that, it’s magical. Even now, when very stressed our eldest has a warm bath, sprays her pillow, puts on ‘her tape’ and is asleep in minutes.
Teaching a child to sleep well improves all sorts of things from family tensions to their ability to focus at school and mental health. Even their weight, oddly.

Mine just went apeshit if I tried putting her down awake and patting did nothing. She only started self settling occasionally after a year.

I agree some just aren't going to be good sleepers.

I found that day naps helped bedtime sleep & if I put them down for a nap after a cue eg a yawn then they would go down like a dream but obviously sometimes you miss them. Also found that putting them to bed earlier sometimes made them sleep longer. Do a nice little routine, bath, book, bed. Don't eat too soon before bed. We also have a light up music thing that turns on automatically if a child makes noise. My eldest (5) still likes it.
However having said that DC1 is a great sleeper & always has been. Dc2 (2.5) is still a bit shit.

Baby whisperer EASY routine. Worked for my three kids. It gave me Sanity with a capital S. Go to the library to borrow the book if you don’t want to buy it.
Also topping up bread feeds with a bottle before bedtime. We did this from 4 weeks and it really helps sleep because there’s no chance they’re hungry.

But don't they still have small stomachs at 4 weeks? I'm not sure it's a good idea to make such a tiny baby artificially full in order to get more sleep.

Googling EASY routine is not anywhere as good as just getting the book. Because the routine changes as they get older and is tweaked by you in relation to your baby’s natural temperament.

However you do it, make sure you make noise. Getting them to sleep without silence is something you will be very thankful for in the future. Ditto not keeping it absolutely dark

It’s not like you can force feed them. They drink what they drink. I just did a tiny top up, it’s so long ago I can’t remeber the volumes. Like 50ml or something like that?

DD is 2 and still doesn't sleep through. We've had the same bath, story, song, bed routine since 3 months. White noise and blackout curtains, everything quiet and boring. I'd love for there to be an answer but I really think it's luck of the draw unfortunately.

I think it's down to luck, although an ability to self soothe definitely helps.

Both mine have slept and I believe it is something I did rather than luck but I know my opinion makes people angry so I keep it to myself .. one thing I always did from birth is put them in their cots from day one and put them to bed awake . They learnt very early on to self soothe so if they woke up they knew how to get themselves back to sleep ( post them needing milk in the night) .

Both mine have slept and I believe it is something I did rather than luck

I thought that with my first. then along came dc2 who was a horrible sleeper and still at 10yo is.

I had to eat a lot of humble pie. omg was I smug.
no judging from me anymore...

I live in Ireland and it seems most people bottlefeed and I definitely believe ‘formula fed from birth’babies sleep better. It’s a fact. I know people will argue that but formula is higher in calories and breastfed babies keep that arosal instinct that formula babies lose (meaning they wake naturally if their heart rate lowers or for other reasons that could cause danger). I breastfed all my babies and they all woke frequently until weaned and beyond tbh...
I just see giant formula feed babies everywhere in Ireland whose parents talk about sleeping through from 3 months.

Apart from that obvious big factor and not the healthiest (that’s my opinion but also a fact), I truely believe it’s just luck. One of mine was a horrendous sleeper and didn’t sleep the night until 4 , my first was a much better sleeper, absolutely no difference in approach. My 3rd still wakes at 2 years once or twice a night. He has a great routine, my kids are extremely physically active and we spend 90 percent of the days outdoors. I absolutely hate when plp say “have you tried this/that”, I genuinely just think its luck (once all the health checks have been done etc) or people who formula feed.
I think what really helped me OP was to stop trying to control it and to accept it BUT and this is v important to make sure you get that sleep by swapping with your dh/partner. Go somewhere else on the house if possible to sleep , stick the ear plugs in and get that block. At the beginning you can’t do this really with a bf baby but once they are older. Sleep deprivation has been the hardest part of parenting for me and no it didn’t get easier once they turned 6months /one year/two years so it’s about managing it so that you get that sleep that you need. Good luck

I think with babies you just have to go with the flow and feed them when they need feeding but would put them down awake so they can learn to settle. We are not strict parents at all but I have been quite regimented at bedtimes ie - my ds6 never comes downstairs in his pj's , pj's signify bed and bed is upstairs so no need to be downstairs in nightwear. It's bath, stories , I lie in his bed for 5-10 mins and have a chat about the day/ things he has to look forward to then it's sleep. I can count the times on one hand he has got out of bed or came into our room . I know quite a few other children who get up in the night , mess around at bedtime , come downstairs when they should be falling asleep . These are the same children that I know have been out in the car in pj's at 8pm, in pj's after a swimming lesson that finishes at 5pm, having tea in pj's. To me there is no signal there that nightwear is for bed and bed equals sleeping . I could be completely wrong and we may just have been lucky but bedtimes are quite regimented , but fun, in our house.

I'm not judging anyone , I frankly don't care if anyone's Babies sleep or not 🤷‍♀️.. both mine were very very different children with different needs but I did the same thing with both and it worked .. I'm not saying it will work again for anyone else and maybe it was luck but your post has emphasised what I said that it makes people angry but the op was asking for ideas so I shared .

@redchocolatebutton

Yes there is an element of luck but you can definitely improve or reduce a child's chances of sleeping well. I read a fuck load of research as I have a medical condition that is really affected by poor sleep. I did these with my 3 all of whom slept by at least 9 weeks from 7 til 7 with a dream feed at 10.30pm.

1. Have a relaxing bedtime routine feed quite a bit but not to sleep then (all with low lights) get changed, occasional bath, singing, massage, book, feed.
2. Put them down as often as possible with an eye open. won't happen every time but as often as possible so they don't associate sleep with feeding. I used to do the massage last sometimes. Even during the day.
3. Give a dream feed at 10.30
4. Never bring them downstairs if wake up.
5. Be as boring as possible all night. When they wake up no lights, I used a little torch to find my nipple to feed. No talking no noise, quick feed then back to cot.
6. Don't feed on every whimper but don't let them get a point where they are crying as it wakes them up.
7. When tiny: swaddle If they like it and put things that smell of you in nearby.
8. Use a dummy minimally but occassionally if they are just sucking.
9. Use a mobile or lights that move so they have something to watch as they fall asleep.

It will all go to shit at 4-6months but I've found once they learnt to sleep well once they quickly pick it up again if you are consistent.

Good luck!

No tips for when they are babies! From age 2 it's about making sure they are active!y eldest does not stop moving and sleeps like a log (so much so you then have another problem on your hands!! He wasn't dry at night til age 6 as he slept so well!!). My other son is less active and has always been less if a good, deep sleeper. We have tried hard to help him increase his activities in he day, more swimming, running in j fresh air, and when he has active days he sleeps really well.

When they r under 2, I'm not sure there's much you can really do! Just try and get through it!! :)

And when they r over 2, keep them active and make sure they go to bed before they are 'over tired'

It gets easier

Agree some are just better at it than others.

DD slept well and personality wise was a calm sort of person.
DS didn’t sleep well and is always on the go.

I did controlled crying with DS from six months I know it’s not popular these days, he is 18 now but from then on he was a really good sleeper. One good thing is he would sleep 10 to 12 hours from when he was out down. We never put him in bed till 8pm.

I gave mine dummies from the start, formula fed them, (including a feed at 10 or 11pm when I went to bed myself), and had them in a cot beside my bed for the first 15 months, so they felt reassured I was close by.
They both slept through from 8 weeks. Which is when they were weaned - we started solids much earlier, 30 years ago.
They occasionally woke in the night, and you would see a little hand grope around for the dummy, pop it back in themselves and give a little sigh of satisfaction before sucking themselves back to sleep!
I was a junior doctor in the days of 100 hour weeks - I certainly wasn’t willing to go through that level of sleep deprivation again with my babies!

"So basically, those who raised good sleepers and nightweaned early, any tips? Things to do and at what age?"

All babies are different so a stranger online can't answer this for you unfortunately.

I agree with all the posts pointing out that it's actually good for babies' development to wake at night and perfectly natural, especially when very young. I don't view it as a 'problem' to be fixed even though it is very tough to deal with. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.