In thinking that 'I just say it as it is/I'm just brutally honest blah blah' is just an excuse for rudeness?

[BenWillbondsPants]

You see it on here all the time.

Yesterday, some friends popped round and one of them brought her cousin with her. Friend had had quite a change in colour and style of hair (she looks great) and a couple of us complimented her on this. Cousin then chimes in with 'it doesn't really suit you (I think it does), it makes your face look fatter and a bit older'.

When friend looks hurt and some of us challenge cousin's comments, she pulls out the old 'Just being honest and saying it how it is' nonsense. Holding her hands up in a 'just trying to help' gesture. Then we had the 'you know me, honest as the day is long, people don't have to like it but that's just the way I am/why should I sugarcoat the truth' shite. I'm not quoting verbatim, but you get the gist of it.

It really pissed me off. Partly because my friend was hurt and partly because this opinion (which she's entitled to have, of course) was unasked for and seemingly given with the sole purpose of hurting someone's feelings.

I'm all for giving honest opinions if asked, but I reckon we all know someone who thinks that everyone needs to hear their 'honest/I say it how it is' shite. Most adults are surely capable of giving their thoughts in a way that doesn't make them a big old arsehole?

So, these 'truth tellers' (whose truth?) - AIBU to think it's just an excuse to be rude and bring someone else down?

My late SIL could be like that. Her stock response used to be 'if you don't want to hear the answer then don't ask the question'. She also always said that she took after the women on her dad's side of the family - strong women who said what they thought. If anyone challenged her she'd just shrug (which also irritated me).

I just thought it was rude and said as much to DH (whose sister she was), and just tended to see as little of her as I could get away with.

They're the same sort of people that say "you're just too sensitive" if you say their comments were hurtful.

Or say "no offence" before saying something offensive.

This tweet sums the whole situation up for me.

Someone I hadn't seen for a while (and didn't actually know at all well, either) once greeted me at a party with 'Ooh, haven't you put on a lot of weight?'

Clearly the look on my face said it all, so she said 'Oh, haha, don't mind me, I always speak my mind!'

So I said 'I'll speak my mind too, then. You're a rude bitch and you can fuck off.'

I hate that kind of people. Sounds like they went to the Katie Hopkins school of manners. They pride themselves as "saying it like it is like it's a personality trait.

It's more the unasked for comments that get to me.

Absolutely agree.

Though I still think there's a way to say something without hurting someone's feelings or belittling them. My friend obviously felt good and it brought her right down.

‘Ya know me, I call a spade a spade.’

People like this are socially inept, lacking in self awareness and often quite stupid.

DrizzleKicks
I think the "too sensitive" is a slightly different thing but agree that some rude people use it to minimise their own rudeness.

I think some people are too sensitive. They ask for opinions and advice but are unwilling to listen to it, or claim people are mean or bitchy and don't respond well to anything other than affirmation. Maintaining a friendship in those circumstances is really emotionally and mentally draining as you're forever on egg shells not knowing what's going to cause the next flounce or poor me response.

I would never say to those friends (well former friends now) "you're being too sensitive" but have tried many a time to get them to realise that cheerleader style hun responses aren't always coming from decent friends with their interests at heart. In the end I got fed up dealing with endless weight complaints but doing nothing and getting annoyed over it, endless requests for advice over the latest man but ignoring it, constant guilt tripping for doing the right thing that I let the friendship fade over time. They surround themselves with "gawjus Hun" types now and I know they were being told how great their DP was (until surprise surprise he left them with a newborn) but that's the choices people make if theyd rather have empty affirmation over the truth with kindness from people who care.

I have a friend who genuinely is just very honest and says what she's thinking.

She's awesome. I get a huge kick out of her. Because she is never cruel - she expresses herself with directness, but also kindness - and she's as honest about herself as she is about other people. Strangely enough, she also never has cause to bang on about how she's "just telling it like it is, I'm so honest, me". People just know her and value her for it.

So yes, YANBU. It's rude bullshit and bullying, and they can never take what they dish out. That "I was told you were a very rude woman and to be avoided" response upthread is killer. That woman is my hero.

It's bollocks.

I was always taught you should ask yourself, Is it kind? Is it honest? Is it necessary? And don't speak unless you can check 2 out of 3.

@Croquembou - an excellent observation!

She is saying that she lacks interpersonal skills and has no intention of working on this. Which of course other people are not going to like her for. Some may tolerate it but nobody will like it.

I would (tactfully and kindly!) let her know this.

I have a couple of stock responses that just come out, without thinking. in response to certain phrases.
When someone says 'I just say it like it is' my answer 'No - just as you see it - which is not the way I do' (or 'as others do', or 'is just an opinion and a rude one at that).

'I'm just telling the truth'
'It may be your truth but it's not mine (ours; everyones) and in my view it's a distorted truth.'
The crossed out versions are only used when I'm feeling very confident and/or the person has really annoyed me.

"I don't sugarcoat shit, I'm not willy wonka"

Ugh

'Ya know me, I call a spade a spade.’ People like this are socially inept, lacking in self awareness and often quite stupid"

As OP said..... Whose truth??

Unless the subject has ASKED for rude critique....

I absolutely loath people who use this as an excuse for rudeness.

Is it kind /honest/necessary.?? As someone else said up thread ...

I've never ever met anyone like this whose IQ was in triple figure.......

Bright people are more nuanced

There's a difference between being honest and being 'brutally' honest. There is generally no need to be brutal. Maybe in exceptional circumstances if you are speaking/arguing with somebody close in private, there may be a need to be verbally brutal if several attempts at being honest (without the brutality) don't work.

It isn't necessary to needlessly hurt someone.

If everyone else liked somelse's new haircut/hair colour and I didn't I'd probably just say "It's so different, I almost didn't recognise you" in as positive a manner as I could muster.

When I was 17 a girl at work asked me if I'd noticed anything different about her hair and (to my utter shame ) I blurted out that it looked greasy. She was very upset and obviously I apologized and I've not made that mistake since. I was young and naive and it looked darker and flat, not shiny like when it has been dyed. It's something I'll always remember.

"she could have said she preferred the previous style or that it suited her better without saying how shit she thought she looked now."
Is there any need to say that though? She could infer from that the style wasn't particularly liked.

I must admit that I find it quite hard to lie or sugar-coat. However I do try very hard to couch remarks (if they are even needed) in as tactful and kind terms as possible. I also tend to think excessively about whether there is any way my remark can be taken as hurtful before uttering it, and to beat myself up endlessly if my QC standards lapse in this regard.

So control can definitely be learned! Sounds like she doesn't want to, though.

I should probably add that I can't stand the stock cheerleader responses either. I don't think responses have to be just one thing or the other.

YANBU

I think people often try to disguise nastyness for being 'honest'

If you need to give an honest opinion it's not difficult to give it tactfully and kindly. (Something that a lot of the 'blunt' MN'ers seem to struggle with. )

Honest doesn't equate to rude. It's that simple.

My friend got her nose pierced. It looked fucking awful. That doesn't give me the entitlement to say " you look fucking awful and you can't be upset by that because it's my truthful word."

It may well be my honest opinion, but it's all in the delivery.

"It may just be that I'm not used to it yet, but I think I prefer you without the piercing. Do you love it? What have other people said?"

Still gets my point across (on the basis she's asking for my opinion, and I'm not just giving it) that I'm not a fan of the piercing, without being an unnecessary arse about it.

Things like this are really awkward.

Where I grew up honesty is polite, skirting round issues and telling white lies is considered extremely rude.

My boyfriend shaved his head while he was on holiday, I have only seen him once since, he asked if I liked it (it looks really awful), I lied which made me feel uncomfortable, but obviously he could tell what I really thought by the look on my face. So I later admitted that I really didn’t like his new hair, but I didn’t expect him to only have a style I like.

Last night I had to go home on the tube with a friend, he was dressed head to toe in glitter and looked absolutely ridiculous, which I told him. He looked like a scrunched roll of tin foil. He however is the same as me, I shaved my beard off and he told me I look like prat, doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

I really squirm when people ask me these questions as I know that normally I have to lie to please them.

In my experience those type of people do not share their "honesty" with everyone though. They can be sickly sweet to the people they want to like them. Two faced.

I agree with billy1966 that often, these "straight-spoken" folk feel very differently when other people dish it out to them!
I have, on occasion, paid someone back with their own coin, and they become very defensive, especially when you claim to be "telling it like it is", just like they do.
And, interestingly, were more guarded in their comments to me, subsequently, so it wasn't an inability to filter.
I think context is important; I have been asked by a friend what I thought of the concert her choir had just given. All I could think of to say was, "You sang some of my favourite songs" (leaving out the fact that they were slaughtered....). But I was there as an invited guest, and not being asked for a professional adjudication. If she'd asked me how I fancied their chances in a competitive festival, my response would have been more (constructively) critical.

Hmm... there was no need for her to say anything at all in this situation.
If you don't like what a person's hair or what they are wearing say nothing.
It's almost , but not as bad, to say to someone ''You look amazing'' when they clearly dont!