To be seriously miffed at nursery?

[User09201224]

Little one has started nursery again recently, 16mo. He's been before and all very positive. There seems to be a big shuffle round of staff and a big influx of kids with it being September. DS started with a snotty nose two days ago, nothing major. Not sure if teething or a cold. Sent him in today and mentioned he was snotty, needed Calpol and to phone me if he needed to come home (he had a really bad fever with his last lot of teeth that wouldn't come down). I called at lunch time and told he was absolutely fine.

Come pick up time he seems happy enough, if not sleepy as he never sleeps well there. After a cuddle I immediately noticed he had started with conjunctivitis (he'd rubbed snot in his eye last night. I'd washed it out and all seemed fine this morning although I was in a rush). He was also absolutely caked in snot. No exaggeration. It was all down the side of his face, dried on. And on both his hands.

I appreciate they're all snotty and you can't keep them immaculate etc etc but I felt genuinely embarrassed taking him to the doctors this evening. Nevermind embarrassment, I just think how rubbish I'd feel to be caked in snot all day (there was no easy this was only an hour's worth).

Managed to get an appointment this evening thanks to the lovely GP receptionist and only made it to the pharmacy with 3 minutes to spare before it shut. So very lucky we got some eye drops. But we did, so no harm done really.

I just can't quite believe that people who are trained and around kids all day did not notice conjunctivitis. I questioned it and they said they hadn't noticed. I said to them repeatedly this morning and on the phone at lunchtime (I know, I'm too precious, hence me needing a head wobble) to just call me if he needs to come home, never mind needing to see a doctor.

The being caked in snot has tipped me over the edge though.

In addition with all the staff changes he's not had some bottles which has lead to more wake-ups at night. I'm very tired and just ergh. (There is a reason for so many bottles at his age).

So, should I say something to nursery or am I a grumpy sleep deprived overly precious mare?

If you’re worried about calcium get the broccoli in him op!

My DD was snotty until she left nursery 😬 she very rarely gets bugs now though.

He eats really well to be fair to him. He tries everything. He just doesn't seem to actually take in a lot. But then he does have big portions. His tea is definitely his biggest meal. Admittedly snacks tend to be as and when.

Your not being unreasonable about the snot but if he needed calpol he shouldn’t have been in nursery.

He didn't need it, was more of a if he needed it its in the bag. To my shame I thought it may just help him feel less grotty. As in I probably wouldn't have given it at home but may have helped at nursery

If I insisted all children were 100% well before coming in I'd have no children in my setting.

They should be giving him the bottles you have asked them to. They can raise concerns it's too many with you diplomatically but forgetting to give them is absolutely not on.

Nurseries might have lots of children but at your son's age the ratio is 1 adult to 3 children...I'd expect a member of staff to be able to keep 3 children pretty snot free...maybe not immaculate but certainly not caked.

I'd raise it but it be very clear about what I expect.

Tell me they made you fill in a permission form to administer medication...even just in case...

Sorry to derail a little but I'm late to the game. Regarding conjunctivitis, the rule of thumb my GP goes by concerns the eyes themselves. If the sclera (white part) of the eye is red and inflamed then its conjunctivitis, if it's just gunk, no redness (even in both eyes) then it's a cold. Teething will exaggerate this because of the excess saliva produced. Even if it is, most of the time cooled boiled water on a cotton pad will suffice.

In the words of my doctor last time dd had it "I'll give you the prescription in case it gets much worse, but if she was my daughter I wouldn't give her the drops". The script is still in the kitchen drawer a year later and she's fine.

he'd rubbed snot in his eye last night. I'd washed it out and all seemed fine this morning although I was in a rush)

Then
his eye wasn't a problem. He'd rubbed snot in it last night so I wiped it away and said to DP if I don't do it he'll get conjunctivitis. It looked fine this morning so didn't think it needed mentioning.

Snot rubbed in they eye isn’t the cause of conjunctivitis.

Causes of conjunctivitis
Most cases of conjunctivitis in children are caused by an infection; your child may also have a runny nose, cough or earache.

So, you sent your child to nursery with the early symptoms of conjunctivitis already. so you child may have infected other children in the nursery.
Go ahead, complain.

his eye wasn't a problem. He'd rubbed snot in it last night so I wiped it away and said to DP if I don't do it he'll get conjunctivitis. It looked fine this morning so didn't think it needed mentioning.

It needed mentioning because him rubbing his eye was already a problem, the snot is a non issue. If YOU didn’t notice your child had an eye problem this morning, why are you blaming nursery? Sounds like you are looking to blame nursery but as he was snotty and on calpol (and was already eye rubbing) he shouldn’t have been sent in the first place yet you should have noticed at first looking at him on collection not after first cuddle that there was an eye issue.
You sent your child in to nursery unwell, they could infect numerous other kids yet you want to complain...

OP, my twins still drank obscene amounts of milk at that age, especially through the night. I started watering down their night time bottles until they just got water and they did wake less. I also make sure they always have a cup of water to hand during the day (but one of them has excessive thirst issues which are being investigated).

I hope this doesn’t come across as patronising, I just wanted to check with you - is it definitely lactose intolerance he has rather than CMPA (cows milk protein allergy aka dairy allergy)? Both of my boys have CMPA and I know from dealing with that, lactose intolerance is very rare in babies / toddlers while CMPA is much more common. I only mention this in case it is actually CMPA and you’re giving him things like lactose free milk - a child with CMPA would still react to that, and excessive mucus is one of the things it causes.

I’m sure you know your own child so I apologise if I’m speaking out of turn - I only mention it because I honestly had no idea that dairy allergy and lactose intolerance were two different things until my twins started having reactions.

Sorry @peterpiperpickedwrongagain, he rubbed his eyes in his sleep. That's hardly early signs of conjunctivitis. My son was fine to go to nursery this morning. No conjunctivitis (or too early to tell), snotty nose that could be teething, and that is it. God forbid I cuddle my child before I notice his conjunctivitis.

@streamingbannersofdawn yes they do that but they didn't give him any.

@SinkGirl no please don't apologise. I didn't know there's a difference. We've had very little guidance and have waited months for this referral. It took us going out of hours for them to acknowledge there was a problem. It was secondary but after 6 and then 12 weeks he was still reacting to tiny amounts. I haven't tried since as it makes him so unhappy.

@Peterpiperpickedwrongagain Wow. Nasty judgement. She's a first time mum, and simply asked for our advice. In case you hadn't noticed, she knocks herself quite a bit, she doesn't need you passing judgement. OP - you're doing great. Talk gently to the nursery about any of your concerns. I'm sure they'll be receptive.

There is no scientific evidence that teething can cause a fever. Why did he need Calpol? To me what I took away from your post was that you sent a sick child in. But then later you said he didn't have a fever. Was he in obvious pain then? If yes, he shouldn't have been in. If no, why on earth did you say he needed the Calpol?

I think you have misconceptions about childminders. The ones I know have plenty of children, extra staff, as many activities and resources as nurseries, just on a smaller scale so they don't get neglected.

YANBU.

If any part of my child looked any different to when I dropped them off I would expect to be informed upon picking them up, or be called to collect them early if it was serious /infectious. The fact they have said they 'didn't notice' is concerning, could kind of understand if they just looked like red eyes from a cold though.

The same with the bottles - if they have offered and he's refused then this should be documented and handed over to you on collection - very different if they have just 'forgotten'. They should be following your plans unless previously discussed with you otherwise.

The snot - this is basic care to me. You keep them clean, it's not hard.

Putting everything together it sounds a little neglectful. It makes me think either inexperience, or too comfortable/lazy need to move on, understaffed or just a culture of bad habits with one or two good eggs thrown in.

Go with your gut.

If it's any help (on abit of a tangent) it's abit of a falacy between 0 - 18m/2yrs that nursery helps with socialising. In psychological terms this is the time we need primary bonds to form so that we have enough sense of self, confidence and esteem to then embark on social relationships. You will notice that children don't actually play 'together' until over 2years old, before this they will play individually but side by side or alone going to their 'bonded' adult for help/praise/approval. So actually CM can be wonderful and beneficial for this age.
For these reasons my LO goes to a CM, he will most likely be an only, he is lovely and sociable with all ages. He goes out all the time to enriching places - way more than his pals that go to nursery. So don't rule it out as an option but I totally get all your concerns.

I hope you have a word with the nursery, and wish you both well x

Also second the CMPA, lactose intolerance is very rare as pp said. My LO also has CMPA and soya (the two can go hand in hand) and also drank huuuuge amounts of milk. He's just turning 2 and still had milk through the night up until 18/19m, we then transitioned to water and he's easily made the switch - tried and failed that when he was younger. Don't feel bad about all the comments re milk, just do what he needs and the rest will sort itself out when it's ready xx

I work in a baby room.

The snot thing isn't great, yes they do seem to get covered in snot within minutes but we try our best to keep them clean.

We follow parents wishes as far as possible with regards to food and bottles. I'm sure at some point we've probably forgotten a bottle, we're only human and we're always very busy, but it's certainly not a regular occurrence.

Without seeing his eyes we can't really comment on whether the staff should've noticed. It can come on quickly, perhaps his eyes seemed fine all day?

Also with regards to teething temperatures- the general rule we go by is that a very slight temperature could be as a result of teething. (That's the nursery's opinion, not mine.) We have had parents try to explain temperatures of over 39 degrees as 'just teething' ... Absolutely not!

I work in a nursery and we use warm flannels for snots.....ignoring these care routines leaves children embarrassed and uncomfortable which hugely impacts their learning.

One your child was ill so you should have kept them off now more then likely all the other kids will be.
Two do wasted a gp appointment as you can buy everything over the counter for a fiver

@mrschainsawuk he was nothing more than snotty this morning, like most of the kids in there. Do you keeps your kids off with a snotty nose? If so, how do you hold down a job? Secondly, you cannot get it over the counter for under 2s. Hence the receptionist booked an appointment. Jesus Christ, I'm exhausted, and some people just wanna kick you when youre down don't they. Poor little mite has been up every hour. Screams everytime I try to wipe and vaseline his nose.

With regards to CMPA, it very well could be that. He's had no proper tests but has been seen at the hospital after he was having diarrhoea up to 20 times a day and then started being sick. It started about a week after we'd fully transitioned to cow's milk.

Your his parent and still sent him to nursery knowing he was already unwell. Take some responsibility. If you were that concerned about him you would of kept him off nursery yourself.

Exactly, if i, as his parent, was concerned about him. The person who knows him better than anyone. I knew he was fine for nursery, and he was. They said he'd been fine all day, no issues at all. He got tired at lunch time and had a nap. MIL stayed over last night and agreed he was fine to go to nursery. I made it clear they could phone me at any time and I would come to get him. Not that I have to justify my parenting choices. I'm very secure in the fact I did the right thing this morning. As I asked a previous poster, how do you hold down a job if you keep your kid/kids off every time their nose leaks? Get a grip.

Yabu, your complaining about the nursery but sent your clearly unwell child in.

Snotty nose. Again, if you didn't quite comprehend the first time. A snotty nose.

It always amazes me the amount of parents who will use teething as an excuse for their child being very unwell. Yes when teething they get a slight tepm, but not a terrible fever that won't come down