Charging for teacher led clubs

[DebbieFiderer]

Does anyone's school do this? Our primary school has always had a selection of clubs on offer each term, sometimes more than others, a mixture of things depending on the interests of the teachers. They have always been free, and if oversubscribed, places have been allocated fairly, with the aim of allowing as many children as possible to get at least one club, but in reality there usually hasn't been an issue getting a place.

This year, the new head has changed it so that the majority of clubs run by teachers are now charged for. There was no prior notice of this change, and the explanation in the letter is around giving parents more childcare options and easing pressure in the oversubscribed after-school club, no mention of what the money is going to be spent on (it does say that any ingredients/supplies will be included in the costs, but most clubs won't have any outlay except the teachers' time).

I do understand that generally teachers are doing this in their own time, and have always been grateful and appreciative of this, but if the aim was to pay the teachers for their time then I would expect the letter to at least allude to this, but there is nothing about that. Equally there is nothing to say that it is about propping up the school's shrinking budget (which would also be fair enough).

AIBU to think that £30-£35 is too much to pay for 10 weeks of a teacher-led club which generally doesn't require any additional skills, training, or equipment?

School governor here. We have a couple of teacher led clubs. The teachers get paid in our school. We're really grateful they give up their time to run such high quality clubs. They do get paid even though it's pretty rubbish pay.

However, teachers give up an awful lot of their time voluntarily to meet parents, go to fundraising events, christmas plays etc.
I'm also amazed that any school would offer free after school clubs.

Yes we have a teacher led class once a week, my ds is in infants. The charge is £1 per week. We also have county led sports activities twice a week too and they cost £3 per week each.

Meant to add that I'm happy to pay these costs as they are still extremely cheap and my ds is very sporty and absolutely loves them!

@sunflowers, when you say that none of the teachers 'put themselves out and it showed', what do you mean? Do you mean they didn't run the choice of free clubs your son's current school runs? Or do you mean that they didn't spend hours of their own time and lots of their own money on planning, marking, buying resources, arranging and attending school trips, displays, evening meetings with parents, responding to emails, etc (so basically working to rule, doing just what they are paid to do within the hours they are paid to do it)? If it's the latter I genuinely do not know how the school would still be functioning if teachers really didn't 'put themselves out'.

*This was also happening under a labour government and a coalition government. I have been teaching many years! Voting won’t quite fully cut it, sadly.i

That’s not true at all. I have also been in teaching under a labour, Tory and coalition government and the school budget has completely changed. Under the labour govt we saw increases in teacher pay through the UPS. We saw specialist schools, with extra funding that came with it. My department budget was relatively generous and there was not much difficulty in finding pots of money (from school, LA, from SS trust, etc) for some amazing resources. We saw interactive whiteboards pop up in almost every school and classroom. These days schools can’t afford heat.

Of course it won't be going to the teachers!

My dds school uses the teaching assistants as breakfast club and ASC staff, also for holiday staff. A lot of them are parents so I believe they get a space for their dc fit free. The ASC and breakfast club makes a very healthy profit. It’s all done in-house.
Some of the sporting after school clubs charge, I believe that it goes towards replacement equipment.

Kolo I think the problem is that Labour was spending beyond their means, which was not sustainable. Unfortunately we are going completely in the opposite direction now

Schools have no money.
Teachers are buying equipment out of their own pockets.
Schools have no money.
Schools have had funding reduced by £1,000 of pounds.
Schools have no money
Put your hand in your wallet and pay if you can.
School have no money.
Please try to understand.

I think the problem is that Labour was spending beyond their means, which was not sustainable.

But they weren't- government spending hardly increased as a share of GDP under Blair (It rocketed under Thatcher). There was a banking collapse, that's why the finances were buggered in the last year of the Brown government.

Now I certainly agree Labour should have put more aside in the good years, but if Cameron had not massively contracted public spending we'd have recovered quickly in the same way America did.

The evisceration of the education system is an ideological project, not a necessity.

In Wales they have cut spending to improve health care. It came as a bolt from the blue. No warning. TA places were cut immediately. This is under a labour government who were being slated for health care which is dire in places. Our rates were increased 9.7% this year and they are set to approve a 7% rise next year. This money is needed for social care in the community they said. In my little cul de sac of ten properties four of the homes have daily carers. Education is the loser in this round of cuts.

@ineedaholidaynow I don’t swallow that line and it’s beside the point.

My point was to refute the claim made that voting doesn’t change anything. It’s a fact that labour government invested in education and subsequent governments have slashed budgets.

Schools are in crisis. Budgets have been slashed to the bone. Teachers (and all school staff to be fair) have tried to paper over the cracks with their own time and money, but it’s not enough. It’s taking a toll on school staff, teachers are leaving in unprecedented numbers. It’s no wonder. This thread is filled with teachers scoffing at the idea that teachers would get overtime, or that they’d be paid for running after school clubs. Despite most of them also claiming that they are expected to run after school clubs (which does go against the burgundy book, but I guess most academies have now been able to throw that out of the window).

"which generally doesn't require any additional skills, training, or equipment?"

Jesus fucking Christ

Guess they should just be happy for the exposure so

I understand why schools feel the need to charge but I do think it’s a huge shame these sorts of activities can’t continue to be free. The lack of payment makes them more accessible to parents who aren’t well off (and lets not forget that FSMs are undersubscribed my quite a large margin because of the stigma attached, so there will be a lot kids in poor households who won’t be on the pupil premium list, not to mention all those families who don’t qualify by just a few pounds but will still struggle to find money for additional activities or the fact some schools will choose to use their PP money in other ways and won’t subsidise clubs). But the accessibility of free activities is about more than whether or not a family could scrape the money together if they wanted to, free activities give lots of kids more of a chance to just try things and to have more autonomy since parents are less reluctant to say no if there is no charge at all.

Especially with the increase in expense of many other activities (likely all for good reasons, but that doesn’t simply negate the downsides) it means that more and more children have even less available to them and with streets less safe for playing in and greater expectations around supervision, in a lot of ways, children’s lives are not well catered to be modern society.

So I understand the pressure on schools, I don’t blame them for doing it, but I do think it’s a big negative for society more generally.

Teachers get paid for some after school clubs so £3 a child a session would cover the school costs.

My point was to refute the claim made that voting doesn’t change anything. It’s a fact that labour government invested in education and subsequent governments have slashed budgets.

It’s also a fact that during the last labour government, teachers were not paid overtime to run these ‘free’ clubs and were still paying out of their own money for resources.
The issue isn’t not merely ‘let’s vote in a Labour government and all will be well, automatically’
The issue, as mentioned, is the ‘culture’ of how we treat and view teacher time in this country, as a way of putting the responsibility of societal mobility, solely on to them.

Sunflowers211

None of the teachers put themselves out and it showed.

So did you do anything about it?
Maybe start a club up?

Did you put yourself out?

Schools have no money to the point where children with sen are being pushed out, not allowed in or are on part time timetables. The after school stuff is extra and if you don't want to pay for it, don't send your child.

I think they should charge. Better teachers give their time to help boost school funds whilst the children have fun than doing it as parents feel their children should cost them nothing.

We are very lucky that uk education is free, I don’t begrudge any requests from school that will enhance things for my children.

Our after school clubs are £46 per term. They run until 4.30 so a lot of working parents also have to pay for the official after school club that runs until 6pm, another £10

None of the teachers put themselves out and it showed.

Because you think they should?? What do you do as a job? Do you do things unpaid?? Do you stay on after your contracted hours to help out and leave your own children in childcare?? Do you spend your own money on resources for your job? Do you take on responsibility for aspects that are not your job AT ALL?? I would be highly surprised if you did??

I'm a school governor and I'm aware that the finances in school are in a very poor state. We have falling rolls as we are in a city with high EU population and many have gone abroad to avoid the uncertainty of Brexit.

We used to bring in outside agencies to run after school clubs. That is all going and all clubs will be run by teachers. It is a way of raising much needed funds. We do ask for a voluntary contribution each from parents but most refuse or forget to pay. The shortfall has to come from somewhere.

The frustrating thing is that schools are a place of education between the hours of 9 and 3 (or the equivalent). Teachers are paid to teach between those hours. Why is it the school's responsibility to provide free after school childcare for parents, which is essentially what clubs are? If the clubs being run after school are indeed educational and are using teachers' specific skills and are therefore an extension of the school day then why should teachers be expected to provide this for free? And should they be compulsory then? Should the rich kids have to miss horse riding to attend too so that they are not missing out?
If they are 'just for fun' clubs then it is no more than babysitting. And as I mentioned earlier, you would pay a teenager more than £3 an hour for babysitting your kids when they are asleep.
I really don't see why it matters where the money is going. You are getting an hour's after school childcare for £3. Can't you see how much of a good deal that is? You really are in no position to demand that teachers babysit your kids for free after school, or provide them with an extra hour's education.

Whilst I expect teachers to care about the gap and disadvantaged students in general, I don't believe it's fair they seem to be held directly responsible to fix it and have to donate both their time and money ad infinitum.

I also believe the area and therefore the parents attitude plays a massive part- virtually none of the kids in one side of my partner's family do any sort of extracurricular activity despite the fact they can definitely afford it. And like heck would their parents do stuff like cooking with them and parks are rare treats.

My kids school charges for all after school clubs. £42 per term, per club, per child. Children receiving pupil premium are given one weekly club or instrument session for free; I know because my children get free lego club places... I have no issue whatever with this. If they want to do more, then I pay for more. As my current budget and income is £610 per month for all food, bills, clothes, transport and activities (and even savings!) for me and 2 DC, I'm willing to bet I've got less than most people claiming they can't afford it...

Stop hiding your reluctance to pay for your own children behind a smokescreen of pseudo concern for poor people. If you're actually worried about those who are skint, check with the school office about free clubs for pupil premium and suggest it if it's not in place.