Charging for teacher led clubs

[DebbieFiderer]

Does anyone's school do this? Our primary school has always had a selection of clubs on offer each term, sometimes more than others, a mixture of things depending on the interests of the teachers. They have always been free, and if oversubscribed, places have been allocated fairly, with the aim of allowing as many children as possible to get at least one club, but in reality there usually hasn't been an issue getting a place.

This year, the new head has changed it so that the majority of clubs run by teachers are now charged for. There was no prior notice of this change, and the explanation in the letter is around giving parents more childcare options and easing pressure in the oversubscribed after-school club, no mention of what the money is going to be spent on (it does say that any ingredients/supplies will be included in the costs, but most clubs won't have any outlay except the teachers' time).

I do understand that generally teachers are doing this in their own time, and have always been grateful and appreciative of this, but if the aim was to pay the teachers for their time then I would expect the letter to at least allude to this, but there is nothing about that. Equally there is nothing to say that it is about propping up the school's shrinking budget (which would also be fair enough).

AIBU to think that £30-£35 is too much to pay for 10 weeks of a teacher-led club which generally doesn't require any additional skills, training, or equipment?

So we should be blaming those parents and not the teachers.

I don't think anyone here is blaming the teachers. But I do think op is correct to be upset about the change in policy. Maybe, if more of us were upset and complained to MPs etc rather than simply accepting it and allowing disadvantaged children to suffer as a result, change would occur.

I don’t want to spend hundreds a year on supplies for my pupils.

Then don't. Teachers need to stop doing this. If we mask the problems then those making the decisions get away with it. We need to let people see if the school has no paper, pens, pencils, books etc. Funding it yourself is not the answer.

It depends what the club is. If it's cooking, craft etc then yes they should be chargeable. Do you think teachers can afford to pay for their own supplies for 3xtra curricula clubs as well as in the class?

As a primary teacher I have enough to do with actually educating children without providing free after school childcare for them as well, especially when some parents very obviously use it as childcare and frequently arrive 15-20 minutes late from the office / pub to collect their child. When my own children were younger I especially resented having to pay a childminder so that I could look after other people’s kids for free, kids who often clearly would much rather have been at home.

A friend of mine a teacher in a very poor area buys food and drinks for her pupils when she does a bit of extra tutoring after hours. They are hungry.

Personally, I hated funding stock out of my own money, but it’s so much less stressful than trying to teach without pencils, glue sticks, books, paper and the rest. It’s why I own half class sets of all sorts of equipment.

My son's school doesn't charge for after school clubs run by the teachers, but I would be happy to pay if they decided to start charging. Although, I would like to know where the money was going. You can bet it doesn't go to the teacher!

I don't think anyone here is blaming the teachers.

The whole thread is whether or not the school are unreasonable to charge for teacher led clubs. Not whether or not parents should pay for extra curricular clubs or not.

Then don’t. Teachers need to stop doing this.

It’s like banging my head against a brick walls. This very school is stopping that and look at the uproar from some on this thread!! My argument is that I do support schools that do this, so teachers don’t have to pay out of their own pocket and I don’t have to hear from people ‘well don’t pay out of your own pocket then’, when we raise this valid issue.

Baguetteaboutit

Today I have spent £45 so that the club I run can actually be at the event that they have practiced for.

Over the this year alone I have spent several hundred pounds.

The parents won't pay. The school pays for the registration fees and travelling expenses (although I will have to pay to fill the minibus and claim it back).

The parents will get a day of free childcare under two teachers.

They moan about the start time and are often late to pick up the kids.

Yet, the club should be free?

A few years ago I ran a table top battle club, starter boxes are anywhere from £50 to £100+.

And various parents seemed to think that I should be buying all the kits and various boxed sets.

A friend of mine a teacher in a very poor area buys food and drinks for her pupils when she does a bit of extra tutoring after hours. They are hungry

Imagine if she charged for the tutoring?

I guess what irks me is that effectively teachers are being asked to work for free in order to raise money for the school budget

This. It is utterly wrong for a school to make people work for free and then profit from it.

Unfortunately many schools direct teachers to do unpaid work and many teachers assume this is legal or are reluctant to rock the boat- but making money from it directly is a new one on me.

I'm kind of astounded that someone who works in the teaching profession would be so blasé about children being priced out of activities on school grounds.

This too. State education is supposed to be free. That doesn't mean schools can't charge for enrichment, but teacher's work is not included in these charges. What is occuring at this school could well be unlawful.

I work in a school and I am a governor. Budgets are unbelievably tight. There is a computer programme we need to deliver an area of the curriculum to a specific group of pupils. We cannot afford it. Other resources are even more expensive. I have decided that I will buy a personal subscription so that I can access some resources for these children. I don't think it is right that any member of school staff should be in that position, but I know most of them are because otherwise there are no resources to use. So if a school chooses to charge for the after school clubs, frankly, I say fair enough. Unless, of course, you would be willing for your children to have no resources?

Teachers are contracted and paid for 37.5 hours a week usually (because we are obliged to be in the classroom 15 minutes either side of the school day.

I'm assuming OP is a UK state school, which would not do those hours.

"...as though we don't owe children a primary education that gives them a space where learning isn't cut short because of finances."

But the children are getting a primary education during the statutory school hours. Where does the responsibility of teachers end? How many hours a day should they be providing, and usually paying for, extra curricular activities at the expense of spending that time and money with their own families?
I'm genuinely interested in your response as to why you think it's ok that teachers are being expected to take on more and more of the parent's role and then being slated for it? Don't parents have any responsibility to look after and provide activities for their children after school hours?
Your very eloquent 'fuck off' last time didn't quite cover every point.

The whole thread is whether or not the school are unreasonable to charge for teacher led clubs.

The school is not the same thing as the teachers. I highly doubt the teaching staff are the ones pushing the change.

My argument is that I do support schools that do this, so teachers don’t have to pay out of their own pocket and I don’t have to hear from people ‘well don’t pay out of your own pocket then’, when we raise this valid issue.

And the disadvantaged kids fall through the gap. As a profession, we must stop painting over the cracks. It's just not good enough to deny kids access to tuition provided by state educators at a state school because they can't afford it.

@don, my apologies, I meant 32.5 hours not 37!

Like the NHS schools are thought to be free for all at point of contact. This is just not achievable.

We managed it for years. The horrific state of schools is a new thing.

I'm lucky, my sons school doesn't charge for extra curricular clubs. My old school (teacher) started asking for a donation (PE equipment, art supplies, music scores all need to be paid for). As a teacher I ran the school production, Juniors, which involved acting, choir, props etc for free, in my own time. Directed hours covered only teaching and mandatory meetings. TAs gave up their own time, unpaid, to help me. I stopped when it became expected and childcare and my own children started to suffer. Welcome to Tory budget cuts.

I'm astounded that schools manage to fit clubs into directed (paid) time. Most likely it's a 'heavily expected' thing that teachers have to do, but they aren't paid for it.

Having said all that, if a pupil couldn't pay, I wouldn't exclude them. I'd pay out of my own pocket if need be.

I think it’s worrying if schools are using teacher time that is paid for from the school’s regular budget to raise funds for the school by, effectively, renting the teachers out. What’s next? Double up classes and send half the teaching staff out as supply teachers? It doesn’t seem like the sort of focus a state school ought to have.

Having said that, with the state of budgets the way they are, I’m not surprised if the school is looking for all sorts of edge cases to try and find a way to balance the books. The government should be funding schools properly through taxation, not squeezing everything so only the well off kids can get decent childhoods.

YABU and sounding like another typical “why should I have to pay for anything?” Parent! Ffs the teachers will not get that money I can guarantee it!! They don’t even HAVE to do it in fact!! Imagine, they are staying in work for an extra hour to save you and others the cost of childcare and to keep YOUR children active!! How dare they charge!!

I'm not sure how whether the club is free or not is going to help with the fact that you seem to have been lumbered with a bunch of cheeky fuckers?

I don't think that you should be paying for this. I think that poor children should have the opportunity to participate in out of school activities. I think we should properly fund our schools. In the meantime, I'm just saying I'm surprised that teachers would find the situation in which poor children are priced out to be unproblematic.

And by the way here in Ireland there’s not many schools that do after school clubs (and if they do it’s only one)...because teachers have lives to live too!!

Wow! I pay between £50-£60 a Club for a term and my daughter does three per week. This is on top of the afterschool care costs which I have to pay for on those days too because I need her there until 6pm. I didn’t realise they were free in some schools!

It's just not good enough to deny kids access to tuition provided by state educators at a state school because they can't afford it.

They do get it. Tuition during the school timetabled hours. Not after school clubs for fun that cost only £3 p/h and individual circumstances can be dealt with accordingly.
Even the unions have admitted working to rule hasn’t worked in the past.

@DebbieFiderer

I would beg you to ask, in writing, how the teaching staff are being paid for those clubs.

If the school is charging parents for teachers' salaried time then this is unlawful and highly immoral.

Teacher often cannot speak up. Parents have vastly more power than us.