Charging for teacher led clubs

[DebbieFiderer]

Does anyone's school do this? Our primary school has always had a selection of clubs on offer each term, sometimes more than others, a mixture of things depending on the interests of the teachers. They have always been free, and if oversubscribed, places have been allocated fairly, with the aim of allowing as many children as possible to get at least one club, but in reality there usually hasn't been an issue getting a place.

This year, the new head has changed it so that the majority of clubs run by teachers are now charged for. There was no prior notice of this change, and the explanation in the letter is around giving parents more childcare options and easing pressure in the oversubscribed after-school club, no mention of what the money is going to be spent on (it does say that any ingredients/supplies will be included in the costs, but most clubs won't have any outlay except the teachers' time).

I do understand that generally teachers are doing this in their own time, and have always been grateful and appreciative of this, but if the aim was to pay the teachers for their time then I would expect the letter to at least allude to this, but there is nothing about that. Equally there is nothing to say that it is about propping up the school's shrinking budget (which would also be fair enough).

AIBU to think that £30-£35 is too much to pay for 10 weeks of a teacher-led club which generally doesn't require any additional skills, training, or equipment?

It doesn’t appear to be the same at secondary school. My sons school runs over thirty clubs and parents cover costs for things like cookery but all the sports, IT, drama, music etc. are free.

I’m a Secondary teacher. It is the same. Or at least, the potential to be the same. Teachers will still be giving up their own time to do them and often topping up out of their own pocket. I do.
My school just this year is finally having to reduce them because they can’t afford to replace teachers who leave and we are all overtimetabled to compensate.

There may well be additional costs incurred such as heat and light and extra cleaning and caretakers time, not to mention any consumables or equipment needed. These were probably just absorbed into school budgets in the past.
This.

Chloe
Same. One of the enrichment options I do I pay for all my own kit, spare snacks for students when we are off site, give up evenings and weekends unpaid. We pay business insurance on our cars, drive around but can't claim the mileage. Literally the only reason to do it is interest and trying to protect the kids from the reality of cuts.

At many schools even things like GCSE revision days in the holidays staff are doing for free now because the school can't afford to pay them.

So, you realise that the posts you posted earlier are still there, right? The ones were you ask if people realise that children cost money and ask if we should give every child their tea and buy their Christmas presents too?

This doesn't sound like someone who has any regard for those children missing out on after school activities beyond pointing out the failing of their parents.

My ds’s primary school offered to use pp as payment for one after school activity and a music lesson.

I don't think teachers would volunteer, they'd be told they have to by the head. Same with all the other extra events etc.

Good lord with the other thread bemoaning £40 a term as a voluntary donation for an entire term of education I just wonder about your priorities. It’s nothing. It’s your child. Why would you not provide them with the opportunity to do whatever it is that’s offered??

@Baguette, you really have developed a huge problem with me haven't you?
Of course I know my previous posts are still there. I wrote them to try to illustrate that teachers already do so many extra hours and go above and beyond for the children in their care (for free, or rather at often great expense to themselves. They are not just not getting paid, they are paying to provide all children with after hours opportunities) yet to some parents this still isn't good enough. They don't want to pay a small contribution towards the costs of running these clubs, so where does it end? Should schools be providing dinner to the children? Buy presents for them too? Slowly but surely more and more of what is the parent's responsibility is being expected of teachers, for example, teeth brushing.
I don't see why 'poor' parents can't take their children to play football after school or play board games or cook something with them. It's not always up to teachers to fill children up with enrichment opportunities. Yes, I do believe parents can and should take some responsibility for that too.

Many parents in England would not cope with the Irish system, having to pay for books, stationery etc, but I wouldn't be surprised if elements of that system will start to creep in more and more

That's really interesting @ineedaholidaynow. What happens when parents refuse to pay? Does it go to court?

ThisHereMamaBear
It's certainly becoming conveniently lumped into the wider contribution required for UPS (along with things that some of us are paid TLRs for, or were e.g. my last position I left the TLR wasn't replaced and small sections of my job were given as good experience projects for ambitious 2nd/3rd year teachers).

The clubs are a service, which I would expect to pay for, like any other.

Pupil premium grant can be used to fund places for children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Fwiw my children's school charges more than yours. The clubs are still very popular. It has never been free. The clubs all have costs (craft materials, snacks, external coaches sometimes) and school budgets are very strapped

@Howlovely! Yes yes yes!! I think ppl are too quick to make everything a teachers/schools responsibility! So much so that it’s a get out clause for the parents!! It’s a cop out!! Ppl forget that while teachers are spending their money on resource they are taking that money from their OWN children’s household! That when teachers are giving up their time (for free)that their own children are possibly in childcare!! So it is costing them greatly!! Ppl need to start being ACCOUNTABLE and stop assuming that the education system can “fix” everything!!

Yabu

@ALoadOfTwaddle they don’t because they need their children to have the books to learn! They can’t just refuse!! If they can’t afford it they can apply to the social service office for a back to school allowance but that is means tested! It is a part of Irish society that you pay for school books!!it has ALWAYS been that way!!

Pupil premium grant can be used to fund places for children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

For the third time- not all children who need it are eligible for pupil premium. Also, some schools will use the PP funding to pay for class TAs and other schemes to support the learning of the children so might not use PP for after school clubs.

Youmad I agree, the education system can't fix everything. But offering a two-tiered system depending on who has parents who can/will pay for 'extras' can only widen the attainment gap and hamper social mobility, which is contrary to the aims of the education system.

@ALoadOfTwaddle I work in a school in a deprived area, some will have budgeted for school, some will have had the allowance. They all have their books. And they all bring in a packed lunch...🤷‍♀️

Sorry, your point is?

In DS's school when voluntary contributions were asked for trips and swimming lessons (had to hire a coach to get to the swimming pool) it wasn't the poorest parents who didn't pay

My point is ppl In Ireland provide these things without expecting the school to do it!

Howlovely! I agree. If you look at the percentage an average family spends on education it’s minimal and often expect something for nothing.

And yes education is built into the tax system - but it’s built in for everyone so it’s not like the entire burden is on those who benefit. It’s on old people who’s kids have grown up, young people that have just got their first job and yes, even those of us who pay privately..

I just don’t get it - why would you begrudge it and why would expect teachers - who are not exactly paid a fortune - pay with their time and their money for your child to do something that’s giving that child an experience they may not otherwise get.

This was also happening under a labour government and a coalition government. I have been teaching many years!

The situation under Labour was incomparable. I remember all the frustrations but in hindsight it seems like a golden era.

I fully accept that the harm, particularly curriculum damage, started under the coalition, but the really big funding cuts were not until cameron's second term.

My point is ppl In Ireland provide these things without expecting the school to do it!

Different culture, mate.

No my kids school run Dance, football, basketball, science? Guitar and loads more, and do no charge a thing. I adore the teachers, they put so much effort into the kids and you can tell they are happy.
At my son's last school they did nothing and charged for literally everything. None of the teachers put themselves out and it showed.

YABU.

It's an extra curricular activity. The school are not obliged to provide over and above the standard school hours. It isn't an extension of the school day or a free after school club.

Therefore I think it's only fair a small contribution is made as it is over and above what the school are obliged to provide. I doubt the contribution even covers the cost in many cases.

I disagree about disadvantaged children missing out. IME if cost was a prohibitive factor I think the school would see to help. At our school almost every child does at least one extra curricular activity. Anyone who doesn't return the form gets a quiet word in their ear and if cost is the issue an arrangement is made, be that reduced fees or no fees at all. I'm aware that may not be the case at all schools, but schools are more than aware of the barriers a disadvantaged child may face and it is within their gift to provide the appropriate support.

Personally I think it's a bargain and I would not be able to find a structured after school activity for the same price.

But why is it ALoadofTwaddle, maybe we need to start adopting that culture. With all the cuts in many services schools seem to be expected to cover everything now, just adding more pressure to the teachers. Maybe families really do have to step up more when it comes to education.