To think this teacher is chatting bollocks?

[beahunnywashyourtummy]

DNiece (sensible girl, not a bullshitter), came home today a bit upset because her Art teacher? Has threatened to move her down to a low set which would therefore lower her English and Maths set.

In short, the Art teacher said if she didn't improve or start paying more attention, she'd move her down to set 4. DNiece is currently a Set 1 pupil which is top set and set via your standard of Maths and English.

DNiece asked how she could do that since Art was an option subject overall and Maths and English were not. Apparently the Art teacher said she didn't care and she'd move her down if she felt she was poor enough Art wise.

Surely this can't be a thing?

She's always been brilliant at Maths/English and has great reports, genuine interest in
Those subjects and clearly does well marks wise. I just don't see how an Art teacher could move her for art and directly impact two core subjects.

The Art teacher isn't going to waste her time randomly picking out students to move down a set.

What have your DN's Maths/Eng grades got to do with anything? It's Art. A different subject.

Your DN is most likely not doing enough work in class and/ or wasting time, messing about, chatting, not doing HW, being a PITA.

Imagine the outcry if a naughty child from set 4 was moved into set 1 as a punishment!

After re reading the OP's post several times.

It seems to me that the teacher hasn't said that she would move the Dniece down in English or Maths just in art (for whatever reason) and the Dniece has said that it has the knock on effect of moving her down in these subjects.

I do find this strange as normally timetables are by subject and not by ability groups and even if she had to move across the timetable sets 1 to 5 would still be taught at the same time.

BertrandRussell
Imagine the outcry if a naughty child from set 4 was moved into set 1 as a punishment!

Like they do in some schools when a child is referred within a subject group for the lesson?

Imagine the outcry if a naughty child from set 4 was moved into set 1 as a punishment!

Happens often enough where I am (where timetabling allows).

OP your neice needs to behave.

I've never heard of a school where art is in sets. Especially not 4 sets.

Pinkyyy

I've never heard of a school where art is in sets. Especially not 4 sets.

there is that as well, given the take up numbers.

Especially with creative subjects being in the bottom bucket of progress 8.

She's just an art teacher....
You're just an aunt.....

Sounds like a daft and unworkable punishment tbh, but if I were the teacher I would be frustrated by your backchatting niece messing about and not putting in enough effort.

For some children, Art will be the subject they excel at and care about most. How frustrating for the teacher to be distracted from teaching by your niece's inattention when she could be bringing on the kids who are talented and really care.

I don't know whether you have guardianship over your niece, but if so I would be telling her to buck up her ideas and start working properly in class.

Seriously? Schools move kids from set 4 to set 1 as a punishment? Blimey.

Sorry but she must be playing up in class or being disruptive for a threat like that to be made. She clearly needs to correct her behavior and this sounds like a good incentive to do so.

She doesn’t sound very sensible

Former head teacher here, if that makes a difference? Firstly, nobody is 'only' an art teacher. Nobody is 'only' an anything teacher. Unless you have stood at the front of a class of children and taught them, please don't be disrespectful to an entire profession trying to swim uphill without lifejackets. Secondly yes, one set may affect others because time tables cannot be rewritten to accommodate poor behaviour. It does sometimes work the other way-moving up a set could cause an issue which is why sets are so carefully chosen before the beginning of GCSE. Your niece is now, I assume, at least 14 years old? She clearly has a tongue in her head (if she's talking in class) so she needs to use it to apologise to her teacher for not behaving in her class and the causes-is she bored? Can she not see? Whatever it might be. Bear in mind that teachers want students to achieve. A child in set 1 and capable of the highest grades returning a mediocre one because they have buggered about in class is far more upsetting than a child in set 4 who has worked their socks off for two years and doesn't quite achieve a pass.

Bertrand the idea being to move them away from their mates so they stop causing trouble. Most schools have an internal system where each period a class is dedicated as the one to send naughty kids to with some independent work. Usually it's a 6th form lesson, or a high set in an older year group. Most irritating year 8s will be suitably cowed or embarrassed to be sent in with a bunch of year 13s.

Of course in an ideal world there would be a member of staff on hand to come remove them all together (to isolation or a pastoral area), but budget cuts.

Should say... It's ime very rare to move a kids class permanently. But I've seen it done.

Thar’s not moving them to a different set. That’s just moving them out of the room on a temporary basis. Quite a different thing.

If she being a PITA in Art, then you can bet she is in other subjects too. Be concerned about her, not the teacher.

I was a twat in secondary school and my English teacher wanted to move me down. The HOE wouldn’t allow it though because my work was top set material. The teacher hated me and I can understand why. I’m an English teacher now myself, I would have hated me too.

I think moving pupils down a set or three is a common punishment for poor behaviour. Your niece isn’t as golden as you think.

"& not question the teacher"

Really?!
Even when the teacher is talking arrant bollocks?
Where are you from, @Youngandfree, Gilead?

BertrandRussell

I have seen set 4 pupils moved to higher sets as "punishment" but its normally due to them being in a disruptive group.
so 1 pupil to set one
1 to set two etc.

it works well if you have a class that ignores their actions and concentrates on the work.

I don't suppose it occurred to you that the answer here is that she needs to behave and work harder in art?? Do you expect the teacher to do nothing if she takes the piss in her lessons and doesn't do enough? Because that would be responsible, eh?

Stop focusing on being angry at the teacher and tell your daughter to pull her bloody socks up.

@BertrandRussell sometimes it is a permanent move. In our school, ‘punishments’ are referred to as ‘consequences’ or ‘sanctions’. Believe me, a disruptive lower set child would much rather be in with their mates where they think they can bugger about, rather than in with a higher set where there is no one to bounce off. I have known it to be permanent and makes a big difference to both classes.

Remove the problem - much like the OPs (highly trainings and professional) art teacher is threatening to do to her niece, permanent or otherwise.

Basically she needs to improve her behaviour and be respectful in art then no issue.

Cheeserton, well said and I agree. People find it so easy to critisize someone else trying to do their job. Stop nit picking and work on improving your daughters attitude in class.

The whole of your opening post sounds like she had an argument with the teacher about what the teacher can or can't do.
She then came home and stirred up a hornets nest.
Whilst you take apart the status and powers of the teacher you seem to be missing the point.

That is not ideal behaviour and that is what needs a look. Hopefully she'll grow out of this behaviour but only with guidance and support. Otherwise she will end up a deeply unpleasant personality of the sort that ends up.on Mumsnet Threads