To think this teacher is chatting bollocks?

[beahunnywashyourtummy]

DNiece (sensible girl, not a bullshitter), came home today a bit upset because her Art teacher? Has threatened to move her down to a low set which would therefore lower her English and Maths set.

In short, the Art teacher said if she didn't improve or start paying more attention, she'd move her down to set 4. DNiece is currently a Set 1 pupil which is top set and set via your standard of Maths and English.

DNiece asked how she could do that since Art was an option subject overall and Maths and English were not. Apparently the Art teacher said she didn't care and she'd move her down if she felt she was poor enough Art wise.

Surely this can't be a thing?

She's always been brilliant at Maths/English and has great reports, genuine interest in
Those subjects and clearly does well marks wise. I just don't see how an Art teacher could move her for art and directly impact two core subjects.

I worked in one of the top schools in England. And yes sending naughty pupils to lower sets was applied for behaviour management. I actually remember the head of English sending a very bright girl who was an absolute nightmare with her teachers and classmates, to set 5 from set 1, for the full Year 10. She was embarrassed enough that she's completely changed her behaviour in Year 11 and got 6 grade 9s!

*LaCitrouille" that seems a bit unfair on the rest of set 5 and their teacher - being dumped with an absolute nightmare for a whole year.

Assuming you are not actually the niece, then unless you are her legal guardian, keep of it out and let her parents and school work together to help her improve her attitude. Nobody will thank you for supporting your Niece in throwing away her chance at getting a good education.

She has been warned. And art teacher may also be head of department.
I'm sure it's not an empty threat.

We had an art teacher who threatened something similar, albeit 15 years ago. It was because the brighter pupils thought art was a joke, not worth time and effort and they didn’t do the homework etc as they prioritised maths/science/ English. Unless you were really struggling you had to do art GCSE as we basically had to get as many GCSEs as possible. The teacher was so fed up she gave half the class detention for not doing some basic homework the same week our English coursework was due. I remember one girl having a major panic attack as her mum would go nuclear at the prospect of a detention (it was a fee paying private school with vvv high expectations [by parents and teachers] of some. As a side note this girl went off to Oxbridge) Never happened again as you can imagine! The art teacher wasn’t expecting miracles, she knew who had artistic talent and who didn’t and how to help us all achieve the best given our skills, but she was just totally fed up of students thinking her subject wasn’t as serious as others. As others have suggested it may be worth speaking to your DN and finding out what is going on. If your niece is struggling, she doesn’t understand the work being set or aims/outcomes then yes it’s unnecessarily harsh and i’d encourage your niece to speak to the teacher. She may find the teacher has more understanding after that. If your niece is just messing around, then as others have suggested it would be worth bucking up her ideas.

Sounds like something my art teacher would have said. She was friends with another teacher who had good reason to dislike me, I hated her subject and so the art teacher also tried to make my life impossible even though I'd got very good marks in O level art.

I don't know the ins and outs of this particular case, but the teacher is not always in the right.

Your niece sounds like a pain and needs pulling up by the family.

Another teacher who feels sorry for the students and staff of lower sets whose lessons are being used as a punishment ground for more able lazy arses. Imagine if being with you is pushed as a good way to humiliate your peers into behaving.

Niece should be in detention/ internal exclusion if her lazy arse poor behaviour is impacting on her work and the peace and industriousness of the others.

What will your niece's family do to ensure she pulls her socks up, OP?

Most schools timetable off the core subjects first and fit everything else around it. They're won't change her English or Maths set unless she's struggling in those subjects as the grades are far more important than an art grade to the school. Having said that the threat isn't really the problem the disruptive child is. Art is a subject that needs hard work and concentration from day one or you simply can't manage the workload. She needs to sort herself out for the sake of her classmates and teacher if not herself.

Art is one of the most interesting subjects in school...im amazed your neice has such a bad attitude towards it.

The teacher is being ridiculous If she actually said what the neice says she did.

Most schools timetable off the core subjects first and fit everything else around it.

That's my experience in the schools I know. All the maths sets are at one time so a student could be in any set and it wouldn't be affected by any other subject. Lots of schools are moving away from setting in English from what I've seen but again the schools I know all have English at the same time for one year group, or in the larger schools half the year group do. That's why I asked how the art setting would influence the other subjects.

Anyway I would stay out of it and let dns parents email the school to query this while also telling to pull her socks up and respect the teacher.

1. Your niece is acting like a brat
2. You are way over invested in this
3. Keep your nose out and let her parents deal with it

It's only interesting if you find it interesting, we're not all the same. Of course, it doesn't excuse bad behaviour in class.

What’s DN been doing? What’s her parents said?

Sounds like she’s been disruptive or chatting too much or not working hard enough. Maybe all of them. She needs to work on that.

Ffs another anti teacher thread in the past 24 hours!

Pathetic

We have absolute no idea if the neice is being a brat or not

Has the DN been forced to take art due to her time table?

I was forced to take drama as one of my GCSE options due to me doing triple science, economics match and English.

I didn’t even try, I’m not theatrical nor do I enjoy the attention on me however was selecting my options it was the only option available.

I would be asking her parents to have a word with the school to determine why this threat was made and be asking in future that unenforceable threats not be given out.

Most schools aren’t going to jeopardise Math and English grades over an optional subject.

You need to look at why the teacher had reason to be cross with N and go from there.

I doubt what she said came out the blue.

Is / was she disruptive or cheeky in art ?
Is / was she disruptive or cheeky in other lessons ?
Is she not putting the effort in ?

If Dn doesn’t give a stuff about Art it won’t matter to her if she moves down.

Since she’s “always been brilliant” at Maths and English I’m sure she’ll also do well regardless.

beahunnywashyourtummy

Its your Dniece that is the issue here, as the conversation has got to the stage of "if you act like this in other subjects you will be moved down" and she is still back chatting.

To those saying English and maths are more important.

What do you think is more likely to happen, protecting the grades a class full of high level pupils or protecting the grades of one pupil?

I have seen pupils moved down for poor behaviour so it does happen.

Sounds like she’s being a PITA and the teacher is trying to get her to start paying more attention and stop messing about.

^^this

Using the lower sets as a punishment camp is extraordinarily offensive. I can’t believe how many people on here think it’s acceptable.

However, I think somebody has definitely got the wrong end of the stick here. It is vanishingly unlikely that a school would move a top set student to set 4 for all subjects based on performance in Art. Even if it’s streaming not setting (which is what it sounds like) the stream for other subjects is usually driven by English and Maths, not the other way round.
Anyway, a word with the school is what’s needed, to clear things up.

How Old Is DN?I'm betting year 8 or 9 and she hasn't taken option again.

I got moved down as 'punishment' by the English teacher who hated me (and assaulted me) for what was then third year.

I loved it, the pace was slower and I thrived. I have dyslexia, original English teacher wrote in my work that there was no such thing. The girls in the class were great.

Apart from Corcoran, who is also inclined to be on the defensive rather than accepting and apologising, pretty much every reply on this thread has been sensible. Don’t fight the teacher; look at your DN’s behaviour.

This most summed it up for me:

Why on earth she thinks it's ok to not concentrate, work hard and take time from other peoples learning. Other children may be rubbish at English and love art and want time from the teacher that she is wasting dealing with this behaviour. You need to look at her behaviour not what the teacher has said.

“Don’t fight the teacher; look at your DN’s behaviour”

No don’t fight the teacher. Asking what’s going on isn’t fighting. And I find it hard to believe that ref situation is exactly how the child explained/understood it. And if it is, it still should be queried. Set 4 is not a punishment camp.