Another Nursery Issue!

[Treacletoots]

So DD has been in the same nursery since 6 months old and she is now over 2.5. She's for the most part been really happy.

Until recently, when a new child has started in her group who appears to be bullying most of the children, which we've heard from other parents about their experiences. The child repeatedly bites, pushes or otherwise physically assaults the children.

We've asked twice now what is happening to prevent and we've been reassured they are taking steps but this keeps happening.

I've asked for a one to one meeting to formally discuss as we now feel it's a safeguarding issue and they've not bothered to respond with a date. I asked what days the child is in so we can move around our childcare to avoid him being in the same days but they won't even advise us this.

We've frankly lost faith in their ability to resolve the issue or take seriously our concerns.

I've enquired at another local nursery, and they have spaces for one day that we want to cover when we know the other child is in but not yet the full week.

Aibu to move DD over part time to a new nursery until they have spaces full time or will this upset or confuse her more than dealing with this child?

It's a tough one.
I can totally understand how you feel (having been there myself).
Mother's instinct is to just pick your child up and remove them from the situation.
I understand nursery can't tell you a lot for confidential reasons (which may be why they can't say which days the other child attends), but you still need the reassurance of knowing what strategies are in place to prevent this child from hurting others.
As tempting as it is, I wouldn't move nurseries as like you say this would unsettle your daughter and the chances are you will come across the same problem in the next nursery.
I think the best thing to do is be persistent with the staff and keep pushing for a meeting.
Tell them how it is effecting your daughter, and that you are considering taking her elsewhere if it keeps happening.

I wouldn't move her part time. If you're not happy with your nursery, I'd look at other nurseries and move her full time. However, you could come across another child like this and there's nothing you can do to control it. I would make sure the nursery staff are aware of why you want to take your child out.
I've worked in nurseries and with this type of behaviour, it was always suggested that we do shadowing, so the child is never left alone for a second, but when you're short staffed, it's impossible. So it may not be all their fault.

It sounds like this child is having a very hard time coping with nursery and is expressing it like this. So the staff will also be having to work with the child to help the cope and adjust, which may take some time depending on what's causing the behaviour (none of which they can explain or detail to other parents). Which doesn't help your daughter but does explain why this could appear as staff being unbothered or difficult.

You didn’t actually mention anything happening to your child in the post. Is this all heresay? xx

Thanks. I think they are short staffed and one of the staff confirmed this to us unofficially. There's a poor consistency in staff in that room and the lack of any response to a meeting request is quite simply really unacceptable!

I'll keep pushing for a meeting, but line up a few alternatives on the side.

No, she's been bitten three times, that we are sure of, pushed over twice and he hit another little boy in the face and scratched all down his cheek.

@Treacletoots ... A meeting to discuss what? They won't discuss anything about the child with you. They can only offer reassurance and the policy they implement for settling and 'behaviour management'.

P.S. A toddler can't be a bully. Please don't throw that word around willy nilly.

@silverdragonfly1 I suspect you've hit the nail on the head.

He's new to nursery at almost 3, so he's either been at previous nurseries and had to move, or been with his parents or other carers so hasn't learned to play with others up to this date.

I suspect the former as mum appears to have a professional job, but could be wrong!

Yes we want a meeting to be reassured what they are taking steps to resolve, since it's been going on some time

YABU for branding a toddler as a bully.

Have a meeting with the management to discuss how they are protecting your child. If the refuse then move her. No matter how settled she is, surely a little unsettling is better than being bitten on a regular basis.

Your child isn't being bullied. The new child isn't old enough to be a bully.

I can see why the injuries are upsetting though and the nursery needs to be implementing its own policies. I wouldn't move though when your DD has been happy for all this time

You can ask the nursery how they will protect your child, but they can't tell you anything about the other child.

Rather than asking about the other child's days, maybe you can ask the manager if there are other days/sessions your child can switch too where there will be less risk of her being bitten?

If there are other issues at the nursery like unstaffing and a lack of consistency, you might want to move anyway if you can find something better.

Do you know who this other child is? Would it be worth arranging a play date between the kids so you can also meet with the mum? Not to throw accusations to her but sometimes parents are trying to deal with biting etc but it can be a tough one. My nephew was a biter and I can assure you that my SIL and BIL were also trying to deal with at home. It’s obviously not great for your child to be getting hurt at nursery but like others have stated, you could come across it again.

I'm an early years senco working in a nursery, plus I have a young child who attends the nursery. So I can see both 'sides' so to speak in this and it is a tricky one.

I would like to point out that the child is not 'bullying' the other children. All children's behaviours have a root cause, and at that age he is really not old enough to be acting maliciously, though I know it seems like it.
He may have anxiety, sen, a difficult home life, struggling with transitions etc etc. There may be a number of reasons why the child is behaving this way. I know it feels like the child is targeting other children but this really won't be the case. I will also say that there isn't often an easy fix and that anything that is put in place to help the child will take time. 1-1 funding for example is like gold dust. And even if the child is eligible, which is almost never, this can take weeks or months to put in to place.

I would arrange to meet with the nursery manager/room leader and explain your concerns. They won't be able to tell you anything, but I'm assuming they will be following policies which they can show you. And there is always the chance that by parents highlighting their concerns to management that more support is put into place for the child if possible e.g closer supervision, staff permitting.

I wouldn't want my child to be hurt by another child at nursery. Though at some point I expect she will be. Biting, hitting etc can all be typical at that age. And staff ratios don't allow the close supervision constantly that we would like to provide. I will say that as staff we are always mortified when it does happen and always do our best to prevent it in the first place.

If you aren't happy with the nursery and how things are being handled then there is always the option to move. But in my experience these sort of behaviours crop up very frequently and you may find it happens again in a new setting.

@thetrollfairy ordinarily I would agree.. And when DD went through this phase at about 18 months, alongside several of the others, several of the parents actively worked together to resolve it.

However... The mum has already sworn at me in the car park for a non issue so I don't think I really want to meet up. The apple doesn't fall so far from the tree IMHO.

Just to reiterate. We are trying to arrange a meeting but so far they haven't bothered to reply to us...

The apple doesn't fall so far from the tree IMHO.
What a nasty thing to say about a toddler!

agreed DC

He's new to nursery at almost 3, so he's either been at previous nurseries and had to move, or been with his parents or other carers so hasn't learned to play with others up to this date.

How do you know he hasn't played with other kids until now? For what it's worth, my child started to bite horrendously when she was 1,5 years old, until she was 3 years old. She herself was bitten once on her face, which left a mark for 6 months, as well as on her hands and arms. These were bites by kids she had been around from 6 weeks olds onwards.

When she started to bite herself, we did EVERYTHING we could do to stop. The nursery had her monitored by a SEN Coordinator, kept a log of her attempts to bite and informed us every single time she had tried to bite another child. At the end of the day when picking her up, we had to sign the register of 'Bite attempts'. Not once were we made to feel that she was 'a bully' .

Maybe put yourself in the other parent's shoes, before you assume that their child has never 'learned how to play' and is a 'bully' because he or she bites.

Biting does not have to have a 'bully'reason, other than a child being unhappy/unable to communicate their frustration/can't yet express their feelings into words.

Your toddler isn’t being bullied. The other child is presumably a similar age therefore not old enough to be a bully. He? Is however behaving how many toddlers behave at times for whatever reason and hopefully the nursery can sort it out ASAP for all of the children’s sakes including the child who is lashing out.

Your comment about a toddler In relation to their mother’s behaviour is very unpleasant. I get that you’re upset but you might want to keep in mind that your own child is currently very small and may go through a similar phase herself one day.

A meeting to discuss what? They won't discuss anything about the child with you.

Surely it's obvious? It's a meet to discuss how they're going to keep OP's child safe. They can do that without discussing anything confidential relating to the other child.

OP, if your child is going to stay at that nursery you obviously need to try to keep things amicable, but if they won't respond in relation to your requests for a meeting it might be worth mentioning Ofsted, who obviously need to be informed if there are safeguarding issues.

The apple doesn't fall so far from the tree IMHO

No wonder she wasn't pleasant to you! You sound like an absolute delight

The nursery staff are quite right not to divulge information about this child to you.

I've asked for a one to one meeting to formally discuss as we now feel it's a safeguarding issue and they've not bothered to respond with a date.

How long ago did you ask for this meeting and how did you request it? Ultimately if you are unhappy with the nursery and their way of dealing with things, then send your child elsewhere.

So your child had been through this phase, but other children aren’t allowed to?

I presume you've requested your meeting by email? If not do so. Mention the behaviour specifically so they'll be concerned about OFSTED inspections.

Then I'd call and ask for the meeting too. Be persistent. Call and email at least daily until you have a date. It is not acceptable for them not to be able to keep your child safe from harm.
A one off is unfortunate but understandable, repeated harm is not.