To think freedom of movement, as it is, actually works well?

[KennDodd]

Yanbu - works well.
Yabu - does not work well

Good thread OP.

Hopefully it will help people understand the facts about FOM and not descend into a Brexity bunfight.

I believe that if an EU citizen has been here for a certain amount of time and they still haven't found meaningful employment, then they can be sent back to their own country, but the UK doesn't do it.

There are a lot of young East European men living on the streets, hand to mouth. Some for two years or more.

Maybe we should make sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about scanning your passport at the airport, is that what you mean?

Any EU citizen that is not a UK citizen presence in the UK is subject to treaty. An EU citizen can be deported if they present a risk to the security of the UK, or if they do not enter employment after 3 months here.

Of course the UK has never bothered to enforce those restrictions - presumably it was cheaper not to, and the savings could go towards MPs expenses. But the treaties provide for them, and other EU member states have no problem enforcing them.

A glass door is still a door.

My problem is when money gets sent home, this is not racist. If money is sent home it is lost forever from the country.

The thing is when money stays in the country (apart from holidays) it will be spent here keeping other people in other jobs and on and on, if it goes it's lost from the economy.

Especially during the migrant crisis, I worried about terrorists coming to Europe along with genuine refugees and being able to make their way much easily to the UK because of freedom of movement in Europe.

"If you're an EEA or British citizen, you won't be subject to immigration control."
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immigration/non-eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/are-you-subject-to-immigration-control/

@DGRossetti, ok fair point. I was thinking more about the way that a non-EU citizen is tracked through permit applications (unless they are an EU family member).

EU citizens in the UK aren't tracked the same way and so the real numbers cannot be known (yet, until the settlement scheme is sorted out).

Worked well for my mum too as a student prior to brexit

Prior to eu (sorry toddler jumper on me)

@GirlsBlouse17
Fom only applies to EU passport holders. We are not in the schengen zone and have a sea between Britain and the rest of the EU. I don't see how FOM would make it much easier for refugees or terrorists to come here. Can you please explain your thinking? Genuine question.

YABU. Anyone who is able to get a passport for any EU country can then come to the UK. When Angela Merkel welcomed half of Africa into Germany she effectively welcomed them into any EU country.

@KennDodd I know we are not in Schengen, I understand that. My worry was that if 90% of the journey to the UK had no restriction of movement, then terrorists only had to get around the final 10%, to make it to the UK. This would be much easier than if terrorists had several border controls to get through.

When Angela Merkel welcomed half of Africa into Germany she effectively welcomed them into any EU country.

I don't even know where to start with this absurdity.

GirlsBlouse17
How will us being inside or outside of the EU make any difference to that though?

Thing is our finest go to Europe and we get car washers and spud pickers in return

GirlsBlouse17

If terrorists are able to get across a sea border, what makes you think that a land border will stop them?

70% no from or me on a personal level, there is not enough services to deal with the influx of people.
GP appointments are impossible to get, A&E is jammed packed every day 24-7 people left on corridors, the rents and food supplies have doubled in price.
A EE was shouting at me on the bus asking why my fucking country was so expensive I would have loved to say it is due to you and others arriving lack of supply and major demand.
I don't know how it can be sustained.
30% I am happy with it, I've meet some great friends and neighbours learnt about different cultures, it is nice to know I can move to another country
I wish it was a more level playing field.

Thing is our finest go to Europe and we get car washers and spud pickers in return

I've lived in Spain. If that's "your finest" you're in trouble.

Wow! Tell that to the vulnerable people trafficked here.

No of course it doesn't well. It's opened up opportunities for criminal gangs, abuse of people, abuse of our system.

Massive increase in population, schools couldn't cope, extra classes built, baby boom, hospitals couldn't cope, head counts down but in reality councils were dealing with population explosions. Added to that strain on social services to support really poor families, families which didn't treat dc to UK standard, dc in care...

I don't understand why UK had to suffer this for the sake of field workers... It's been awful. The only ones who benefit are eu workers who earn far more here and send it home. They are disciplined spenders and save up to make a real difference back in their home countries.

My problem is when money gets sent home, this is not racist. If money is sent home it is lost forever from the country.

What is the difference between that, and buying something from abroad ? Like an iPhone for example ?

EU citizens in the UK aren't tracked the same way and so the real numbers cannot be known (yet, until the settlement scheme is sorted out).

But is that

a) an EU problem
b) a UK problem ?

Why not elect a UK government to sort out the problem ?

No of course it doesn't well. It's opened up opportunities for criminal gangs, abuse of people, abuse of our system

Even if all of this was true (it's not), it still comes from the UK choosing not to exercise its immigration rights under EU law.

It's not a problem with freedom of movement, it's a problem with a flaccid UK government and a nation that is frankly a bit backward with infrastructure and distribution of resources.

Yanbu - Being an EU national has allowed me to become trilingual and get international work experience that would have been a pain to get otherwise.
I am yet to know an EU immigrant in the UK that is not working hard.
Anyone thinking that if the UK leaves the EU will stop immigrants from EU entering the country and viceversa is a bit naive. Actually, France might relax stopping immigrants at the channel, the same way as Morocco does with Spain. Let's not talk about terrorists because as someone already said, nothing will stop them.

Stock I have lived most of my life in wealthy Town.if I still lived there I would have never understood the immigration angel of brexit.

Where I live now I've been exposed to many issues. I've seen gangs of workers with basic skills, constant fighting, police, ss involvement, council involvement, from many areas. Ambulances.. On and on and on.

In my immediate family we have 2 Eastern Europeans, with masters degrees working in pharma.

They said, the problem with UK was, allowing sudden immigration of around 3 million, your going to get at high number of responsible, educated, good citizens who want to contribute, integrate and have good experience here.

But your also going to get high number of criminals, chancers.. And people who will disrupt, not integrate and be a drain.

That's the issue with dealings in large figures. If smaller numbers had arrived it would have not been noticed even if people arrived with not much to offer the UK. They could have been assimilated easily.

Where I am there have been endless problems. All around us we have people who have assimilated, don't cause issues. But sadly there has been large faction that will have cost UK a lot of money.

So I've personal experience of both sides and we need some bar of points before we allow people to settle here.