To be shocked by the response to the prorogation petition

[Littletabbyocelot]

I signed the petition against prorouging parliament primarily because I believe Parliament is an important part of our checks and balances and it shouldn't be dismissed when key decisions are being made. It sets a terrible precedent.

I received the response today. It is really long but the first 3 paragraphs are:

'Prorogation is a pregotative act of the crown exercised on the advice of ministers. We must respect the referendum result and the UK will be leaving the EU on the 31st October whatever the circumstances.

'The UK will be leaving the EU on the 31st October whatever the circumstances. We must respect the referendum result.

'Prorogation is a pregotative act of the crown exercised on the advice of ministers to bring about the end of the parliamentary session...'

It then goes on about the process, fixed term parliament and how this prorogation is to allow extra funding for the police and for schools.

AIBU to think that:

1. The government have repeatedly said prorogation wasn't about Brexit so leaving on the 31st shouldn't have been mentioned at all, never mind twice in the first two paragraphs

1. It's very badly written.

1. It should have responded to the actual concern which is that the government shouldn't use tools like this to avoid the checks and balances that parliament provides. What if next time its parliament voting to stop a war?

'

I was equally fuming about the stuff about the 20,000 police officers and the NHS funding

How can you be fuming about that?

I presume you want more police and more funds for the NHS yet when you get ot, it enrages you?

Is that you Jeremy-I want an election, well then let's have an election, no don't want an election Corbyn

Appallingly written.

I could barely believe the reply. So rude and dismissive. Sounds like it came from Dominic Cummings. What it really says is 'Fuck off you little pleb. We won, and there's nothing you can do about it.'

Prorogation is a prerogative Act of the Crown, exercised on the advice of Ministers. We must respect the referendum result and the UK will be leaving the EU on 31 October whatever the circumstances.

Has Boris not said in Parliament that Prorogation has nothing to do with trying to force through no deal? If so, then surely this is evidence that he has lied to Parliament?

His lawyers have certainly said this in court filings. This was the primary issue upon which the legality of the prorogation hung.

But that's the point, @oliversmumsarmy, we don't believe that we will get more police officers and more NHS funding. This is a man/government who has repeatedly said in the press that prorogation is nothing to do with brexit then responds to the petition on prorogation by saying we have to deliver brexit. He's absolutely blatant about lying. Where exactly is the funding for the nhs/police coming from, because we know brexit will reduce treasury funds and we know the Tory party won't raise taxes, so are we saying Philip Hammond simply failed to notice a few billion lying around?

I'm not a Corbyn fan, likely to vote Lib Dem in the election but no one really believes he's avoiding an election because he's afraid do they? Boris is openly saying he'll do anything to avoid requesting an extension. It's not at all clear whether a general election would give him the majority to force through no deal so there's every prospect he would use an election to set a date after the 31st and crash out. And that has been explained too many times for anyone to genuinely believe the 'yellow belly' tripe that Johnson is pulling.

There are plenty of democratic ways to leave. Staying in the customs union would honour the referendum (no promise was made otherwise at the time),

It honours nothing, that's just your wishes. That's not what we voted for. We voted for full independence, and leave means "leave". Who's in their right mind would want to still pay high tariffs on items that we can purchase from other places cheaper? Leg in and leg out means we're still bound to comply with EU regulations, which I'm sorry, doesn't go well with an independent country. We'll just be trapping ourselves; we might as well stay as we are.

Ah hope you're ok OP

The response was inevitably going to be like that. A reminder that it's a legal course of action and repetition of the arguments they put forward for doing it in the first place. And Brexit was probably mentioned becuase the petition mentioned it.

Like it or not, it's actually the LEAST shocking response I can imagine. What on earth else did you expect?

Maybe we should give him time.

Austerity is over so maybe there is money now for various extras.

I would rather crash out of the EU on 31st October than see a Labour government take over.

At least if we crash out we get to stay and work with what we have. If Labour got in I would definitely lose my business and probably our home

I agree with you OP, but I cannot say that I am shocked, unfortunately.

They've kicked out all moderate Conservatives so there are only the fascist leaning ones left in the Government and they have no morals as long as it is about them (which also means that they are playing on people buying into whatever they say - and many do unfortunately. We won't go down in history as the smartest people ever lived, I'm afraid...).

Not shocked or even surprised, but disgusted. It’s no kind of reply at all. Pretty much what you could expect from the shit politicians in this shit government.

"Austerity is over so maybe there is money now for various extras."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

@Hannah021 no we didn't. We voted for leave in some form, which left everything on the table from customs union to no deal. Teresa May said leave means leave, after the referendum. I'm not saying that's what I want - I agree why would we want the disadvantages without the benefits. I'm saying that if parliament would vote for that it is a democratic way of meeting the terms of the referendum which are simply to end our membership of the EU.

And austerity was a policy, a choice not a lack of money. They chose to reduce spending to reduce the deficit. Since there will be no extra income (in fact likely the opposite) and no increased taxes extra funding for the NHS and police means cuts elsewhere (social care for example) or increased borrowing. Or it means its total bollocks.

"It honours nothing, that's just your wishes. That's not what we voted for. We voted for full independence, and leave means "leave"."

What type of "leave" was not specified on the referendum form. "Leave means leave" is meaningless bullshit spouted Quitlings and bots who have literally no coherent arguments to present.

That's not what we voted for. We voted for full independence, and leave means "leave”

You may well have had this in mind when you voted Leave, but it wasn’t actually promised by the government. What you did was project your ideas onto an empty slate, and assume that a leave vote would deliver exactly that. Other leave voters will have done similar, but with different ideas to you. The truth is, the detail of leave was not defined at the time of the vote. So neither you nor anybody else voted for it in actual fact.

It is always wise to be as clued up as possible on the facts - not the rhetoric/propaganda - before casting a vote.

It's totally shit. All of it. Of course it's about Brexit; does Boris really think we are stupid?

does Boris really think we are stupid?

It does seem that way, doesn’t it? Or perhaps he thinks that as a nation we are too apathetic to get up in arms about his blatant lying and perversion of basic democratic processes.

Does anybody remember the incident a few years ago in Buenos Aires, where train commuters became so enraged with the poor reliability of their service that they set fire to a train?! You just can’t imagine that happening here. This is why Boris is banking on getting away with it.

Not sure what anyone’s worried about to be honest. Considering MP’s and ‘remainer’ peers in the House of Lords just worked around the clock blocking every move made by Boris over the past week of so, I’m sure they’ll still have time to look at and vote against any new deal Boris manages to bring in for scrutiny a couple of weeks before the 31st October.

Hannah it is what we voted for

The referendum said leave, it didn't specify how. It's irrelevant what you thought you were voting for. You weren't. It's just your wishes as you say, not what you were actually voting for

Don't we always get sold a lot of propaganda (possibly lies) in any election though?
Chill out shooting Hannah down. Frightening how many people think they know best and nobody should dare think differently to them on here.
Peace

Scribbled on the back of a fag packet, like every other idea BJ ever had. Unless it was scrawled on bits of wine crate left over from his model bus making.

Still hoping he will break George Canning's record as PM.

Now that they're no longer wasting stupid amounts of time shouting and arguing in the HOC, perhaps our MPs and ministers can get back to doing more productive things, like running the country and negotiating with the EU.

The country carries on as normal when Parliament isn't sitting because of the army of civil servants who do the real work behind the scenes. Suspending Parliament gives everyone a breather to get on with the normal course of running a country.

I got the same email this morning and I'm even more disgusted than I was before (if that is possible). YANBU

And austerity was a policy, a choice not a lack of money

Are you sure about that?

They chose to reduce spending to reduce the deficit

Doesn't deficit mean lack of money. Something you have just said there wasn't.

Since there will be no extra income (in fact likely the opposite) and no increased taxes funding for the NHS and police means cuts elsewhere

How do you know there wont?
If we leave the EU that will be one expense we won't have and anyone who has looked at increase/decrease in taxes knows the lower the taxation the more income the taxman gets.

Who knows we might even get to pay less tax

"If we leave the EU that will be one expense we won't have and anyone who has looked at increase/decrease in taxes knows the lower the taxation the more income the taxman gets."

That 0.46% (or whatever it is) of GDP that we send to the EU. Compared to the estimated 10+% of GDP that we get as a benefit of EU membership.

Yes, there's obviously going to be so much more money to spend

How can they say we will be leaving on 31st Oct whatever the circumstances when they passed a law compelling Bodge to ask for an extension?

Oh I forgot the law does not apply to him.