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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this absence policy legal? Posting for traffic

77 replies

Raspberryfrog · 09/09/2019 23:58

Had a memo from work that states the new sickness policy
12 hours notice is needed to be off sick
If we are off sick we need to ring round staff and find someone to cover our shift
If it’s an emergency or sudden sickness we need an doctors note from A & E or the GP or our absence will not be accepted.
If we are suddenly off with a child we will also need a gps note to prove they are ill.
Is this legal?

OP posts:
YobaOljazUwaque · 10/09/2019 00:00

No

BarbedBloom · 10/09/2019 00:01

I doubt it. You can also post in the legal board to get a definite answer.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 10/09/2019 00:02

I very much doubt it's legal.

BarbariansMum · 10/09/2019 00:03

I dont see how it can be, you dont often get 12 hours notice of being ill. Doctors noted cost £25 from our gp, yours probably charges too. Ask them if they'll cover the cost and make it clear is that all the note will say is that x is ill. No confidential medical info at all.

Who do you work for so I can avoid them.

domton · 10/09/2019 00:05

12 hours notice of being ill?? And with chronic conditions a GP or a&e visit isn't always possible/needed. I keep emergency steroids. How could I evidence that? I sure as hell couldn't work at that point.

Surely this goes from a sickness policy to a leave of absence policy if you have to give notice?

If it could be construed as legal (have no idea as I have no legal training), it's certainly immoral and unworkable and I'd be jobhunting. :/

PanamaPattie · 10/09/2019 00:06

I don't think do - but almost impossible to manage. Very difficult to give 12 hours notice or get cover if you are unconscious in hospital for example. GPs won't give a sick note for "sudden sickness" unless it's over 7 days. I believe you can self certify up to 7 days. I also think getting a sick note for a child could prove challenging.

Purpleartichoke · 10/09/2019 00:06

My first response would be to ask them what I should do in the event of a migraine. Those come on suddenly and I am rarely even capable of phoning work. If DH is around he will call, otherwise I do my best to leave a semi coherent message between vomiting sessions . I’d be lucky to get out my name and that it was a migraine. Certainly not capable of dragging myself to the GP.

Ilikewinter · 10/09/2019 00:06

We self certificate for the first 7 days, I thought that was pretty standard...cant see how you'll get a GP note when an appointment can take 2 weeks!

Utterly ridiculous, where do you work??

YobaOljazUwaque · 10/09/2019 00:10

[https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave government website outlining the law]]

Absence for less than 7 days is supposed to be self certified and employers are not allowed to require employees to get them before then. Even if the employer subsidises the charges, there are much better things for NHS staff to do with their limited time than deal with your employer's paranoia that all staff are untrustworthy. If your employer can't trust you enough to believe you are ill when you say you are, why are they employing you at all?

YobaOljazUwaque · 10/09/2019 00:12

Mended the broken link : government website outlining the law

Judystilldreamsofhorses · 10/09/2019 00:21

I don’t think this is legal. You can self-certify for seven days, and a GP won’t give a note before that. I’ve been off with tonsillitis since Thursday, and have just got in touch each day to say I won’t be in. A doctor’s line obviously knocks off the need to keep making contact, but I don’t think they will do that (even if you can get an appointment) until you run out of self-cert.

Original poster
Raspberryfrog · 10/09/2019 00:25

I think this is prob aimed at me. I have seizures and over the last three months my DH has to phone in for me about an hour before my shift. One of times I was in A and E.

Incidentally both these times I was covering for members of staff who were on holiday, somehow they had been allowed to take leave at the same time. Me and the other member of staff were working 60 hour weeks.

I work caring for a girl who has severe disabilities. There is a team of five, two part time of which I am one and two full time members of staff and one bank staff. She needs 24 hour care mostly she is 2 staff to 1.

The likehood is that no one will be able to cover at short notice so the family would have to provide the care for that shift (usually 8-12 hour shifts)
She lives with her mum, sister, aunt and grandparents. We are employed by the family but an agency do all the paperwork. I am guessing the agency has not seen this latest policy as it came direct from the family.

OP posts:
Original poster
Raspberryfrog · 10/09/2019 00:27

My husband says I should just turn up ill and let them send me home but the problem is the girl I care for has a depressed immune system so catching anything like a sickness bug could land her in hospital.

OP posts:
FluffyCloudsInTheSky · 10/09/2019 00:33

So the family have sent this to you? That could be why it's not enforceable or reasonable

BigDudeDog · 10/09/2019 00:36

This is bonkers OP and you have to refuse it and run it back to your agency. I assume your husband was telling a crap joke?

You cannot have ill staff show up to immunocompromised patients, family just have to hope agency can cover illness.

I have been that family and sent staff home when they have shown up sniffling. Rule no.1 for staff is stay home with your germs, do not risk my family's health. It's a pain in the arse rearranging a day but better that than very poorly child.

Apply logic, make others (your boss) ask for more practical policy.

Inebriati · 10/09/2019 00:39

Its not legal, but your client needs 24/7 care, and employers are only obliged to make reasonable adjustments for a disability. They could argue that your disability makes you unfit for the position.

Talk to ACAS and see what they say.

BigDudeDog · 10/09/2019 00:42

Also team of 5 is quite short-handed for 24 hr care, your agency really needs to get their shit together.

I have worked team of 5 for day time care with very occasional overnights and it is tight, any illness throws the whole lot off and holidays have to managed carefully. You have in effect a team of 4 doing twice that, no wonder it all blows up when someone is ill (and it must seem like that a lot to the family who are probably inexperienced employers dealing with a stressful situation).

Original poster
Raspberryfrog · 10/09/2019 00:44

I may have a disability but I have the best absence record of all the staff here. It’s just my sickness happened to be when 2 staff were on leave. The other member of staff had just finished a shift. The bank member of staff is always unavailable (not sure why they have her to be honest)

OP posts:
nettie434 · 10/09/2019 00:48

Didn’t you post about this the other week Raspberryfrog when the grandmother was rude to you? A 12 hour notice period for sickness is simply silly - norovirus or something like that won’t hold off until you can ring round and get someone to cover for you.

I may have misremembered this completely but the family really don’t sound like great employers.

nettie434 · 10/09/2019 00:51

Just to be clear, I did not mean the two threads were about the same incident - just that the OP has a new problem with the same family.

BigDudeDog · 10/09/2019 00:52

As agency staff the OP is employed by the agency and her beef should be with them.

Reading the update, from a team of 3 plus two halves, 1 is never available (leaving 2 plus 2 halves) and TWO were on leave at the same time??

That's madness.

A 24hr care package cannot work that way. The agency are in the wrong.

seeleym · 10/09/2019 01:01

You posted this before OP I'm sure

QueenOfPain · 10/09/2019 01:05

A&E’s won’t do sick notes. And GP’s will most likely turn you away as you can self cert for 7 days.

Your organisation can’t offset its own absence costs by passing the expense of wasted appointments onto the health service.

QueenOfPain · 10/09/2019 01:09

*as in wasted appointments for unnecessary sick notes.

nettie434 · 10/09/2019 06:58

As agency staff the OP is employed by the agency and her beef should be with them

What I think the OP means BigDudeDog is that she is employed by the family but the practical details like pay, National Insurance etc are done by an agency. This is quite common for people whose care is funded under a direct payment/personal health budget.

I could be wrong but I don't think the OP is actually employed by an agency. It's not entirely clear though.