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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this absence policy legal? Posting for traffic

77 replies

Raspberryfrog · 09/09/2019 23:58

Had a memo from work that states the new sickness policy
12 hours notice is needed to be off sick
If we are off sick we need to ring round staff and find someone to cover our shift
If it’s an emergency or sudden sickness we need an doctors note from A & E or the GP or our absence will not be accepted.
If we are suddenly off with a child we will also need a gps note to prove they are ill.
Is this legal?

OP posts:
ShiftHappens · 10/09/2019 07:16

are you in the UK, OP?

shearwater · 10/09/2019 07:19

Not legal and utterly batshit.

AJPTaylor · 10/09/2019 07:27

Completely unenforceable.

GertrudeCB · 10/09/2019 07:34

Not legal. Or reasonable.

WillLokireturn · 10/09/2019 07:39

The family have given you an unlawful sickness policy, they haven't taken HR or Legal advice before handing this out. The family need to seek employer advice & amend it to comply with legislation and equality act (their employers liability insurance company will go mad to hear they've done this as they'd have to cover legal fees and possible compensation payments).
The family are leaving themselves open to lawsuit for constructive dismissal from all 5 staff members. Get advice from ACAS. You can ring them.

Heyboyo · 10/09/2019 07:48

Not legal and I’d report them

ColaFreezePop · 10/09/2019 07:50

12 hours notice is needed to be off sick
Stupid as you don't know you are going to be sick before hand so unenforceable.

If we are off sick we need to ring round staff and find someone to cover our shift
If you are in A&E or intensive care you won't be able to ring anyone so unenforceable.

If it’s an emergency or sudden sickness we need an doctors note from A & E or the GP or our absence will not be accepted.
They don't give notes like that. PPs have pointed that out.

If it is a planned operation/you are admitted to hospital then they will write you up a sick note but only after you have had treatment.

They are opening themselves up to legal action on grounds of disability discrimination with the above 3 policies.

If we are suddenly off with a child we will also need a gps note to prove they are ill.
GPs won't write notes like that.

This is actually the only time they can ask you to arrange cover but if it's an emergency e.g. child in intensive care, normal healthy child admitted to hospital suddenly, then they would be seen as a shit employer. Some of my family and my DP have seen people with employers like that. What tends to happen is people resign on the spot leaving the employer in more shit.

If your child has a knowing long term condition then it would be reasonable for you to have plans in place if they are sick or admitted to hospital suddenly. To get around this people choose employers/companies that are parent friendly. (Oddly the NHS tends to be one that isn't.) Members of my extended family, my DP and myself have had to and currently do deal with this.

Blindandfrozen · 10/09/2019 07:56

Didn’t you jack in this job OP?

KUGA · 10/09/2019 07:59

If you are in a union I would ask their advice.
Doesn`t sound right to me.
How can anyone know they are going to be sick in 12 hrs.
Look for another job.

GPatz · 10/09/2019 08:01

Isn't it the job of the agency to provide cover in sickness absence?

MerryChristmasHarry · 10/09/2019 08:04

It is unenforceable.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 10/09/2019 08:05

q

Tomselleckhaskindeyes · 10/09/2019 08:07

I think it’s counterintuitive tbh. How many times have you gone to bed feeling shocking to feel better in the morning. With this policy you would phone in sick at the first sign of illness.

ShiftHappens · 10/09/2019 08:13

the family obviously has no knowledge about employment law otherwise they wouldn't have created this unenforceable nonesense.

I would just speak to the agency and ask them what they intend to do about it.

poxornot · 10/09/2019 08:18

As the girl needs 2-1 staff having just five carers isn’t enough particularly when one is often unavailable. Rather than coming up with a ridiculous sickness policy the family need to find more bank staff to provide cover.

starfishmummy · 10/09/2019 08:26

GPatz - I suspect what the OP means is that she is employed by the family and they just use an agency to do all the paperwork and payroll side of things. That's common with families employing carers.

WorldEndingFire · 10/09/2019 08:38

Join a trade union, no need to fight this alone. You will receive legal advice and support - you will have the backing of the union in any legal dispute too. www.tuc.org.uk/about-unions/find-union-you

DriftingLeaves · 10/09/2019 08:41

The family need to know there will always be enough carers but they are going about it in totally the wrong way. They should hand over responsibility to the agency. The agency will be obliged to find a replacement. It's what they are paid for.

LolaSmiles · 10/09/2019 08:50

Echoing other posters. This isn't ok.

The bank staff's availability is neither here nor there though. Bank staff are zero hours and with all people I know who take bank contacts it's based on as and when, not don't take anything else on in case we happen to need you. Often they'll have bank contacts with multiple places, or do bank work around studying or a PT jobs.

They need to get appropriate cover for care but they can't go about it this way.

Tonnerre · 10/09/2019 08:55

I had the impression from your other thread that you were going to leave this job?

If you're employed through an agency I think the terms of your employment are controlled by the agency, not the service users. The family need to set up an arrangement whereby, if a staff member is off sick, it is the agency's responsibility to find an alternative. If that costs them more, so be it.

DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 10/09/2019 08:59

I think it a good idea to present this to the agency and ask them to deal with it for you. Surely that is their role and the family have overstepped?

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil · 10/09/2019 09:00

I think op might find she’s employed by the agency not the family? Esp if they handle pay, ni etc. If so they can’t go changing things as they feel like it, and if there’s a contract in place, they can’t just unilaterally change the terms.

LittleOwl153 · 10/09/2019 09:12

So. Some simple maths:

Assuming 24/7 care. 168hrs a week
a 40hr week per full time staff member means 4.2 fte staff for a full weeks cover - that is without handovers and is only single staffing.

Build into that 5.6wks holiday or 10.8% leave entitlement which takes the staff need up to 4.7fte.

Ons suggests the average no of sick days taken is 5.2 per year but is higher in care work. But using that average adds another 1.5% or 0.05fte.

So to have single staffed 24hr cover they need 4.75fte staff or 190hrs a week. If you have double staff for even 12hrs then they need 285hrs per week (7.125fte) staffing.

So 2 full timers @40hrs and 2 part timers at 20hrs - 120hrs total just frankly isn't enough is it! That's why they have problems...

As a carer myself I get that supporting disabled kids is damned hard and expensive - but this staffing is both exploiting the staff and frankly not fair on the kid as they are not getting the best of anyone!!

regmover · 10/09/2019 09:28

You've posted about your job before Op. You're treated really badly and need to look for something else. Hope you can get out.

Spingtrolls · 10/09/2019 09:42

12 hours sick notice haha.
I understand that it must be stressful for the family, but what planet are they living on?
They will be the first to complain in one of you have d&v and pass it on to them.
Send the batshit ideas to the agency and let them deal with it.