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Original poster

Is this absence policy legal? Posting for traffic

77 replies

Raspberryfrog · 09/09/2019 23:58

Had a memo from work that states the new sickness policy
12 hours notice is needed to be off sick
If we are off sick we need to ring round staff and find someone to cover our shift
If it’s an emergency or sudden sickness we need an doctors note from A & E or the GP or our absence will not be accepted.
If we are suddenly off with a child we will also need a gps note to prove they are ill.
Is this legal?

OP posts:
DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 10/09/2019 09:56

Oh and if they press you to sign it, tell them that since the agency deals with the contractual side of your employment so you'll take their 'ideas' to them to see if the agency would then wish to change anything in your contract.

MerryChristmasHarry · 10/09/2019 10:59

Not that it would make any difference if OP signed it anyway.

CallmeAngelina · 10/09/2019 11:25

I remember your previous thread, too. You walked out and told the mother/grandmother to stick the job though, didn't you?

Willow2017 · 10/09/2019 14:06

How are you still there when you told them to stick the job last thread?

londonrach · 10/09/2019 14:14

You cant usually give 12 hours notice and no way should phone colleagues to find cover. Not your problem. Sounds like its come from this family. Can you ask agency for another job and sounds like this family is being unreasonable in their demands.

Tonnerre · 10/09/2019 15:06

I'd be tempted to ask them to tell me precisely how anyone can work out 12 hours in advance that they're going to be ill, because that's a skill I could make good money out of.

Bouffalant · 10/09/2019 15:29

Have you posted about this employer before?

Original poster
Raspberryfrog · 10/09/2019 16:11

Yep I got a grovling apology and went back. Sorry I should have updated however I am looking for something else.
If anyone thinks I am a troll I am happy to provide mumsnet with evidence I do actually do this kind of job

OP posts:
Cakeorchocolate · 10/09/2019 16:31

This family sound very difficult. Completely unreasonable. Although I missed any previous thread.

We all know sickness is an inconvenience and we probably all feel guilty when we're off sick.

Most sickness can't be predicted. When you're sick, the last thing you need to be doing is ringing round to find cover.

Fit notes aren't provided for absences less than 7 days. Same applies for absences due to children.

(They do need to know when you're not going to be there, though I don't have a practical solution for how to do that if your dh isn't there to let them know.)

Lucked · 10/09/2019 16:38

I think you should just hand in your notice again. They are a very unreasonable employer.

There are better bosses out there

eladen · 10/09/2019 16:40

I remember the last thread. Even before adding this in it was appalling. Why did you go back just because of an apology but no actual changes (other than this change for the worse)?

How hard are you looking for something else? It's clearly not sustainable.

Toddlerteaplease · 10/09/2019 16:46

I remember your other post. I'd definitely be looking for a new job.

WindsorDuchess · 10/09/2019 16:49

I used to help draft policies / regulations for a large company our policy accepted a self cert for illness lasting 5 working days and a Dr note for anything exceeding that.

It is the office manager / area managers responsibility to ensure sufficient cover of staff the onus should not be placed on the sick member of staff.

pinksauce · 10/09/2019 16:52

12 hours notice is needed to be off sick

Clearly not enforceable, as can be not well enough to work at any time. However, in the same way SSP has a waiting period of 3 days, any enhanced policy of the employer could indicate no pay until 12 hours notice given.

If we are off sick we need to ring round staff and find someone to cover our shift

No, not legal. It is the employers responsibility. It would be actually against the insurance of the employer for you to undertake this work.

If it’s an emergency or sudden sickness we need an doctors note from A & E or the GP or our absence will not be accepted.

Not needed to be off sick, but again is within rights of own policy to pay or not beyond SSP. Just because you need to pay for it makes no difference - its a choice.

If we are suddenly off with a child we will also need a gps note to prove they are ill.

No, not at all. However, you basically only get one day to arrange childcare, beyond this child being ill is no reason not be be at work.

Is this legal?

If you want to be paid beyond SSP, they can set the conditions. For SSP, no it's not.

mnbvcxz098 · 10/09/2019 16:57

I think what is being looked for is not to have someone 'throw a sickie' as it leaves the care short. In terms of legality, employers can request any reasonable proof of absence, although most GPs will not issue a certificate (on the NHS) for absences of less than 7 days.
Can I suggest that if you believe it to be aimed at you that you discuss it with your manager.

Tonnerre · 10/09/2019 17:02

Obviously the "grovelling apology" wasn't genuine since they seem to be essentially still moaning about the same issues.

MemphisMum · 10/09/2019 17:57

i'd ask them how they drew up this policy

ask them if its legal etc etc....make them think a bit

Willow2017 · 10/09/2019 18:01

As op is paid through an agency then the family have no right to dictate terms like this. They don't pay her directly.

historysock · 10/09/2019 18:58

Not legal at all. Or even remotely sensible. How can you know 12 hours in advance if you are going to be sick?

stucknoue · 10/09/2019 19:12

It's not ideal, not sure if it's legal but if you think about it in reverse, they need you to be there, bank staff are possible but need a few hours notice. Of course this is the downside to managing your own care budget and caring in your own home, if they used an agency cover would be found for instance.

I've managed care needs and we sacked carers who took more than the occasional sick day because it was vital care, we had no cover other than that carer and whilst other members of the team did emergency cover we were left with none a few times due to one unreliable person (I know this is tough but it's hard having a disabled relative too!)

Willow2017 · 10/09/2019 20:25

Stuckmouse
Op has had very little sick time in all the time she has worked with this family, far less than the other staff. Agency let 2 of the carers off on.holiday at once, one carer was sick so op did 60 hrs that week but when it made her ill she got a load of abuse for taking a day off when in hospital from the family.
It's the agency's job to provide adequate cover and they don't and op is taking the flak.
The family do not employ her they have no right to give her such ludicrous terms.

Willow2017 · 10/09/2019 20:26

Ffs!
Stucknoue

Ellie56 · 10/09/2019 20:33

12 hours notice is needed to be off sick? Hmm

This is batshit OP.

How much notice do you have to give to die?

MerryChristmasHarry · 10/09/2019 20:43

It was instructive to read the poster upthread spelling out exactly how many hours of care they are trying to get from 4 core staff members. The team is evidently not big enough. They need to focus on that, not making completely batshit demands like giving a certain amount of notice before calling in sick.

Tonnerre · 10/09/2019 23:56

It's not ideal, not sure if it's legal but if you think about it in reverse, they need you to be there

How can it possibly be legal to require 12 hours' notice of illness? Could you comply with that, @stucknoue, particularly for something like epileptic seizures?

No matter how much they might need OP to be there, she's not going to be much use to them if she's having or just had a seizure. That's why they should have sensible fallback arrangements in place.