To be saddened people still do these things on holiday?

[lastqueenofscotland]

Had a summer of holidays pictures on social media m which had included a lot of people
Swimming with dolphins
Going to sea world in Orlando
Posing with drugged up tigers for pictures
Riding elephants in Thailand

So on and so forth. In an age where information about the poor treatment of these animals is so well known and freely available AIBU to feel a bit sad about it.
I also want to publicly call them out... but that won’t go well.

I’ve volunteered with turtles and orangutans, for two months each time. Both are endangered species and the work done by the charities is invaluable in ensuring their continued survival. Neither projects allowed tourists to hold the animals although, as volunteers, we held them only when absolutely essential eg to love turtles into different tanks or to release the hatchlings into the sea.

I’m horrified that people continue to be so ignorant about the damage we humans cause. Animals are not toys.

Your story is heartbreaking, TrexDrip.

This is an interesting and disturbing thread. Thank you to the poster for the National Geographic link.

“Lots of self deluded posters here
Deluded or defensive?

Some posts very much feel like "you people have questioned the ethics of my holidays... And I don't like it... So ... So... I'm going to make comparisons that aren't valid comparisons to prove that you're a hypocrite or a bad person too".”

Just to clarify I’ve never done any of this shit nor would I ever want to because it’s absolutely cruel and pointless and I agree entirely with the thrust of the thread. I just find it an odd trait that humans think it’s ok to decide which animals are ok to keep in houses all day, walk around on a lead, sit on and ride, and keep in cages, regardless of how many thousands of years they’ve been ‘domesticated’, which seems to make it all ok? And make claims about them being ‘happy’ which is ridiculous as no one can truly know that. I just don’t know why we can’t just leave them all alone to be honest, poor things.

I’m not an idiot, nor am I deluded or defensive. There’s just no need for it.

Some of the places where contact with animals for money making purposes are trying to change and withdraw from offering public participation. They are recognising how unnatural tourist involvement is for the animals.

@Abouttimemum

You know an animal is ‘happy’ by its behaviour. Happiness is an emotion humans use to describe feeling a certain we are very evolved brain wise. An animal wouldn’t be happy, they would be content. Ie not trying to escape you, not harming you, actively trying to communicate with you. Dolphins are so intelligent, they can and do some of these things, which is what humans find so amazing

• Does it bite people, growl, display any aggression?
• does it run away from people?
• Does it trust people or does it just respond for a treat? A domesticated animal does not just seek human company to be rewarded with food. They will do so because they associate that person with comfort, warmth and attention. Cats will often adopt many humans for their comforts on offer and attention, it suits cats well
• Does it eat well
• Is it healthy
• Body language cues such as excitement
• How they behave around other animals
• do they seek you out to play with you)

Dogs and cats have learned ways to communicate with humans, vocally and physically. A cat will meow at a human in a way their wild counterparts would never do. A dog will ask to be petted (and try to pet you) because that is a form of communication to them.

A dolphin or elephant never live in a human home. They never know the true home comforts on offer to them. They have no protective instincts over humans because they have not been bred that way and will likely never be

I knew sea world & the like are awful places, but my god, I’ve just watched black fish on Netflix after reading this thread, awful doesn’t even compare, I don’t have the words. I half of want to watch more and half wish I’d never seen it. Poor poor animals

It makes me sad too. On holiday this year We went to Monkey World where apes and monkeys rescued from being photo props are rehabilitated. They were stolen
From the wild but can’t return because their teeth are knocked out.

Rather than call people out I just wrote a post about the reality of these poor animal’s lives.

I was swimming far out to sea in Eilat on the Red Sea and inadvertently swam with wild dolphins . Two of them were hunting - as they did so arcs of large fish were flying out of the sea into the air . All I could see of them were a pair of perfectly synchronized fins coming up and down into the water all around me . It was a magical moment for me . Especially as it was my 50th birthday and it was a late December day when no self respecting Israeli would consider swimming . It was Hanukkah and we were the only British Gentiles in the hotel .
There was no interaction between me and the dolphins at all .
I remember feeling totally peaceful and happy . My DH by contrast - thinking they were sharks - was meanwhile literally walking on water to try to get back to safety . I once saw a facility that offered swimming with dolphins in a tank . It was vile .

What about the animals that suffer in our very own slaughter houses? We can hardly point the finger at tourism when we put our own through hell.

Nimmykins you have reminded me of a Spanish holiday in the 1972
a photographer placed a poor chimp in my lap without asking me to take a photo - it promptly bit me on my bare arm . I was in a crowded restaurant . People laughed as I bawled the guy out - thinking I was upset at the bite . The poor chimp has no teeth at all . After I pointed at my arm and then mimed no teeth on that poor animal he was run out of the place . By burly Germans .

New Zealand have actually just banned organized wild dolphin swimming for welfare reasons

www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49507901

I have lived in a place where tourists queue up to 'swim with the dolphins in the sea'. In reality in tiny, filthy pens. The dolphins die all the time and new ones get flown in. It's grotesque but all kept very quiet by the company, who make a fortune and are always saying how well looked after the animals are.

I have been to lots of zoos and aquaria over the years for work and the majority of them have never (or v. v. rarely)! released an endangered animal from a 'breeding program' to the wild. They get sent to other zoos.

Loads of zoo animals all over the world exhibit stereotypical behaviour like pacing or repetitive movements that indicate they're stressed. And yes, I am a zoologist.

@MaryShelley1818 I agree

@BobLobLawLLB great point!!

I’m assuming you’re all vegans you never buy from supermarkets selling halal meat? These self righteous posts really get on my tits

Seaworld is a lot better than it used to be.
They do a lot of conservation work and education. The animals are well cared for and they do not breed or capture orcas any more.
As much as it may not be nice to have injured dolphins or turtles jn captivity they are very useful in helping people to make the connection that dumping crap in the ocean can have an impact.
Seriously not like drugged tigers.

@beethebee

Sorry I don't want to derail the thread, but is it true that the babies they breed in the zoos are put down alot of the time because they want the babies to bring in visitors but don't actually have anywhere to put them.

@Sallycanwait1 depends on the zoo, the country and the species but it can happen as part of breeding management. Often it's if the market is over saturated with a species or if interbreeding is an issue

www.thoughtco.com/euthanasia-in-zoos-controversy-1181936

Thanks for linking that article. I remember going to a zoo years ago and thought we were really lucky to be there when there was so many babies. I now feel sad looking back to think many of those babies could have been put down when they reached adulthood.

"I’m assuming you’re all vegans you never buy from supermarkets selling halal meat? These self righteous posts really get on my tits"

You know that demanding perfection is a ridiculous concept? We can all do better without being perfect.

There is no need at all to visit these kinds of places. But sadly for convenience most of us need to shop cheaply and quickly. Personally I try to cut down on my meat consumption but it's not always easy. It's VERY easy to not ride an elephant, however.

There really really arnt orphanges desprate for unqualified foreign volunteers, theyre a complete scam to hook in gap yahs and i cant believe people are still so naive about them

seriously what the fuck is up with people that you see something in the wild and instantly want to ride it anyway?

I’m assuming you’re all vegans you never buy from supermarkets selling halal meat? These self righteous posts really get on my tits

@MrsBadcrumble123 whataboutery and silly comments like yours get on MY tits. I have been vegan for years but I still have to take medication for my condition which is not vegan. No one is perfect.

But just because someone is not perfect does not mean they shouldn’t stop doing things which are very obviously traumatizing to animals, like riding elephants and seeing animal shows at Sea World, and are completely unnecessary. We are all doing our best

I’m with you Op, truly hideous. Especially with the extra publicity that taiji cove is getting this year. I’d suggest anyone watch blackfish or keiko,

A lot of people do still treat animals as toys.

Agree with Op... I am sad that I once went to a zoo at 20 ... many years ago ..it was the saddest place and I left after watching a tiger pace back and forth.... all conservation should be supported in native countries .... there is no real justification for every country in Europe having Zoo,s