To tell you why I voted to leave

[readingreadingreading]

I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.

I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.

I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.

I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.

I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.

No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.

I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.

I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.

I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.

Someone has not been readingreading enough.

OP
I am passionately pro remain
However, I’m going to say YANBU. Mainly because you made an informed decision. That’s all I ask of anyone, really.

I can’t remem who used the phrase but it goes something along the lines of

I may not agree with what you’re saying but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Well, given the shenanigans that have been going on in parliament these past couple of days, it looks like we won't be leaving anyway. Hurrah!

I’m a Remainer and I agree with many of your reasons OP. I’m no fan of the way the EU is run nor the ever closer union concept.

But I voted Remain because it was completely unclear what we would get in place of EU membership. For example, I believe we need to continue with the trade relationship elements and quite a lot of the regulatory elements of the EU in order for the UK to function and compete in the world. It was totally unclear what kind of deal the government would seek if there was a yes vote (ie whether these elements would continue), or whether the EU would agree to it. The Leave campaign was incredibly vague on this rather than setting out a clear alternative. (Deliberately so, as they knew there was no deal which would keep all versions of Leaver happy, and be agreed to by the EU, so they kept it vague). That scared the hell out of me.

Voting Leave was like signing a blank contract and letting the government fill it in later.

As you say, you were naive. I think it is unfair and wrong to call Leave voters thick but I do think they were naive in signing up for a blank unspecified future.

‘I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.’

I think everyone would agree with that. Also, we did manage to travel within Europe, trade and work in other European countries in the 1980s.

The important difference is the EU in its current form didn’t exist back then. Every country had its own borders, had its own trade deals and political agreements, some of which overlapped, to create a very complicated Venn diagram of alliances. Now there is a cohesive union that stretches across Europe where regulations are uniform and the hard borders are the outer boundaries of the EU. To stand alone now is to be a less favoured trading partner to every EU country, to go from being one of many to being the only child not invited to the whole class party.

Thank you op a very articulate post. I am also a leaver and detest that I am assumed to be ignorant, racist, uneducated etc as a result.

The OP was not articulate, or well informed. That’s where the assumptions come from.

I voted Remain, but I'm not going to judge you for this post because one, you manage to be reasonable and articulate about it and two, I actually agree with some of it. Tbh if Lexit was plausible, I'd be more in favour. It's mainly the fact that bastards like Farage are behind it that puts me off Brexit.

Mainly because you made an informed decision.

How can it possibly be an informed decision? - there were no details. Leave voters decided for themselves what leave would look like to fit their own personal thoughts, racist or otherwise, they had no idea what they were voting for, how could they?

I studied Modern European History at University so I felt i did have some insight into the EU and how/why it was set up.

I voted leave.

Immigration was never an issue for me. I believe we need migrant workers.

I voted for amongst other things:

1. Strasbourg - if a pro EU person could rationally explain this colossal waste of time, money and resources then I would love to hear it.

2. I don’t think the EU is financially viable. It’s a creaky old ship that was very nearly sunk by Greece going broke. I don’t think it(Germany) could afford to prop another country up like that.

If I were being honest, I didn’t think that Leave would be the winning vote. It was a protest vote. But it did win so we should be leaving. David Cameron should have never let it get that far.

I hate that the those who voted Remain think that their vote is more valid than mine - who do you think you are? You’re not better than me, your vote is not more important than mine. How dare you belittle my choice. I don’t agree with the shit show that’s happening in parliament at the moment and have lost all trust in the democratic process in this country. I don’t think I’ll ever vote again.

*Thank you op a very articulate post. I am also a leaver and detest that I am assumed to be ignorant, racist, uneducated etc as a result.

The OP was not articulate, or well informed. That’s where the assumptions come from.*

I think people read a post from a leaver that isn't bovine grunts, full of racism and is spelt correctly and assume that the person writing is unusually articulate and well informed.

Which they are, for a leaver

So if you voted Labour, would you also be mortified to share the same political belief as the extreme left anti-semites?

Yes.

I had no thoughts on the Irish backstop, it never occurred to me that it would become the issue it has and I'm sure I'm not alone. I still think, that if we had goodwill on both sides it couldn't be sorted

For this alone you are vv unreasonable

I voted remain, but one thing this whole mess has opened my eyes to is how very difficult it is for a country - likely any country, to extricate itself from the EU once firmly entrenched. And that's a worry.

It certainly takes a lot of thought, planning and investment, which is to be expected when you consider the scope of the trade agreements and regulatory frameworks the EU provides. It needs a government focused on the long term objective not scoring short term points against the opposition, a media who are honest with their readers that this is a long slog, and a civil service trusted to get on with the hard work

Despite that I think it's perfectly possible. It's just not and never was possible within two years from a cold start.

Triggering article 50 without a plan and consensus on what sort of economy the UK wanted to be after leaving the EU was an utter act of vandalism.

I voted leave .
I’m not sure if I had of know it would end up should a mess I would voted the same.
I don’t think the mps have our best interests at heart
I think they are making a bad situation worse

I also don’t understand why we have to pay money to eu to leave

Again a complete lack of detail from a leaver. What a surprise.

I agree with everything the OP has said, I could have written it myself! Well done! I am black - white mixed British and not racist either. Or stupid for that matter - I have an MA in Politics from the University of Durham.

I don’t agree with the shit show that’s happening in parliament at the moment and have lost all trust in the democratic process in this country. I don’t think I’ll ever vote again.

You voted blind for chaos. At least own your mistake rather than blaming democracy.

I love all these people who either didn’t consider
Ireland at all or see it the backstop issue as a minor inconvenience that could be quickly resolved. The border in Ireland has been an issue since it was first drawn! It could take months for everyone in the North to agree which font to use on the agenda when they meet to discuss the issue.

To the posters with a history degree and the politics post-grad -

Did your studies not alert you to the implications of xenophobic populist campaigns and the use/abuse of referendums?

I also don’t understand why we have to pay money to eu to leave

We don't have to, we only pay if it is part of a negotiated deal (apart from possibly some possibly legally binding commitments to things like pensions that we may have to pay either way).

Why would payments be part of a negotiated deal? To get better terms from the EU for leaving. That's diplomacy.

I am mortified to be sharing a belief with Farage etc - and that is why I didn't join any campaign and would never vote for them. But the fact that I have a belief in common does not mean I support all, or indeed any of their other policies (if they have any).

I also think that if any mainstream party was committed to Brexit there would not be many votes for the Brexit, nat front parties. But where else do you vote if you want Brexit?

I was strongly against another referendum until recently - now I am coming to think it is the only way.

Those who are saying my vote wasn't considered/thought out enough, yep possibly. But who does? Who knows and understands every line of every policy before they cast their vote? Yes I know many here will claim that they do but I would bet there aren't many.
I voted on the belief that we would be better out of Europe, and that an agreement could be sorted. Clearly I was wrong on the second point.

Sorry OP posted at almost exactly the same time as you (jinx!). I also think that a good long extension is needed.All these short extensions do is further entrench divisions, there are too many peaks and troughs of expectations/excitement. The UK needs to work out what it really wants , what its priorities are and where it is willing to compromise. Do we care enough about the NHS or agriculture or security to accept compromises in our dealings with the EU or are these things that we are willing to sacrifice ? What compromises are we happy to accept in new trade deals with other nations ? These were all things that should have been properly discussed prior to the referendum, but with an extension, there would still be time to form some sort a consensus.