To tell you why I voted to leave

[readingreadingreading]

I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.

I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.

I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.

I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.

I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.

No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.

I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.

I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.

I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.

I am also pro-leave and I am not even British. But last years have shown clearly British governments do nothing to benefit the nation. They have their own motives and agendas and thats disgusting! They gambled years aeay achieving pretty much nothing. Pathetic. US wants EU to dissolve - its their biggest competitor. Yes EU is a big messy monster that is swallowing the countries around it but in a same time united is better than no clear plans for the future... if politicians have no clue then brexit will break UK. Also , about the immigration- UK is very brain poor and working class sits on be egits so heavily- foreign people keep coming with zero English and harvest your food, create your software, operate on your people... without immigrants UK will be no more as upper class done everything to demoralise the working class. The standard of life is one if the lowest I have seen in Western Europe. Salaries are low for the prices for the rent etc. Many national companies rob people dry. Creating “government schemes” but in truth even those just rob the poor. NHS is dire and people are dying underdiagnosed and sitting in the queues for very long months...if this is UK under EU I fear to imagine wjat will be left from it now. It will get sold off by the top of the society.

Maximus Headroom... all irish want is to be one country. They will separate from UK. So will Scotland. I am
Sure

Err, Polar, not everyone in NI or in ROI want a united ireland.

I'm playing devil's advocate here: What would happen one year on, or five-ten years on, if a no-deal brexit went through?

Depends on whether people are still trusting Farage.

The people who have stopped us leaving are hardline Brexiters for whom any agreement with the EU is some kind of challenge to their masculinity.

Leaving the EU isn't the end of Brexit, it's just the beginning of negotiations. My concern is that whatever happens next, at every step there will be somebody complaining that we haven't really Brexited and 'the people' have been betrayed.

I honestly believe that Farage couldn't give a shit about whether we leave the EU, but it's financially rewarding for him to fuck up British politics.

So in conclusion, while there are still people voting for Farage because they are the situation could be very bad.

Oops "So in conclusion, while there are still people voting for Farage -because they are the situation could be very bad."

masterblaster I don't think very many (there will always be a nasty fringe of any block of people) say that leavers are think and racist. There are a LOT of commentators (Julia Hartley Brewer, Chloe Westey, etc) who say that remainers SAY that leavers are thick and racist.

I totally agree with this. The OP wasn't even 30 words into her initial post when she introduced the 'thick, racist' trope, which is so beloved of Leavers on MN Brexit threads.

HPFA That Peter Oborne film is powerful stuff. I wonder if any of the people who should watch it, have bothered, ie. the Leavers who didn't consider NI when they went and voted.

Polar, no they dont , people in ROI gave up the right to NI in the vote for the GFA. In fact our constitution was changed. Peace was important to us. Most people before Brexit were happy with the status quo and the peace the GFA brought. Brexit has done more to bring the talks of a United Ireland to the forefront then anything else.

Revelation on the way to (secondary) school. We live in a strong Leave area and I have always told my dd to avoid Brexit discussions at school. She said it rarely comes up but when it does there is a disgust about Johnson and , instead of Faridge-itis, concern for a particular EU born classmate who (according to dd) would struggle to get permanent residency because they haven't lived in the UK long enough.
This is a Tommy Robinson area so those views expressed publicly are a tiny bit heartening. .

Now, obviously the views of the children don't reflect the views of the voting parents but it is interesting.

I voted remain but can sympathise in part with some leavers points if view. The OP is eloquent but bizarrely doesn't actually say much, @NoBaggyPants gets it spot on with her questions!!!!

Your reasons for wanting to leave may be sound and non-racist, and there are surely many other Leavers whose reasons are similar. But you are joined by a large majority of Leavers whose reasons are less wholesome. I understand wanting to distance yourself from them, but you can't use your views to pretend their don't exist.

UK will be no more as upper class done everything to demoralise the working class. The standard of life is one if the lowest I have seen in Western Europe. ...if this is UK under EU I fear to imagine wjat will be left from it now. It will get sold off by the top of the society.

Yes, totally agree, so why are you still pro-leave??

@PolarBearkshire have you visited Ireland and spoke to anyone? Ireland are not at all ready or willing, either NI or Ireland, for a united ireland.

No because NI has nothing to do with me, my life or my family’s lives

How hateful. How dispiriting.

frumpety, We, the UK, revoke during the Bake off final and swear never to mention it again in polite company… If they did one of those public information films and we all went to bed saying ' well glad that's all over and that sponge rainforest was amazing' , I mean how much better would the world be ?

I would LOVE Brexit to end this way.

And I really hope someone in the Bake Off final makes a sponge rainforest.

No because NI has nothing to do with me, my life or my family’s lives

It’s very depressing to see how little ppl value their fellow citizens lives.

But brexit has been enlightening like that

No because NI has nothing to do with me, my life or my family's lives

...until the mainland bombing campaign starts up again.

I am sorry, I cant agree with you OP and sadly ( and apologies as I cant think of a nice way to put this) but think you are one of the millions of people who have been duped into thinking the country or the world will be better off with us leaving.
Your point about be able to move freely around Europe is contracted by the point of having the power to restrict movement of foreign nationals. The rules we apply will be applied to us.
Also the money we give to europe. much of which we receive in rebates, helps our business and services trade and reap alot additional income for the country. This will disappear as additional tarriffs will mean that our companies will either become a) uncompetitve b) fall in quality c) will have to cut costs - ie salaries to its workers.
The EU bureaucracy has meant that standards and quality of products and services have improved.
Sadly I see no benefits for the country at all. The EU has been scapegoated by people for the failures of this countrys.
Finally I think those powers who pushed for Brxit have all got vested interests. Murdock and Harmsworth (who own News Corp and Daily Mail) are all offshore tax residents which the EU was looking to stop.
Dyson, Farage, and Rees Mogg have all opened off accounts and offices in EU.
There will be benefits from us leaving the Eu, but it wont be for the ordinary person.

Can someone explain the benefits of remaining in the EU then?

I will hear many, many, many things against the IRA. But one thing they were correct about is that far too many people in the rest of the UK simply refuse to give a shit about Northern Ireland until the violence reaches their back doors.

A good way to disabuse them from this notion, and therefore disincentivise a rerun, is to not be so pig fucking ignorant about the place. Unfortunately that appears to be a lesson far too many British people refuse to learn.

Well MerryChristmasHarry maybe some of us can't understand why people continue to hate others who have different religious beliefs to them and who refuse to find a peaceful solution for their own country and/or refuse to "share" power with them.

No because NI has nothing to do with me, my life or my family’s lives.

The border has plenty to do with your lives, not least because a hard border will mean prices going up. And if the GFA goes, I'm afraid we'll be back where we were in the last century with Northern Ireland having plenty to do with everyone's lives because of the violence that will result, in England as well as in Northern Ireland.

Uncontrolled migration does have a direct effect in where I live

We don't have uncontrolled migration. We have the level of control that we as a country have chosen to exercise; we could have imposed greater controls at any time, as demonstrated by other EU countries that choose to do so.

You also need to bear in mind that leaving won't stop immigration, not least because it is irrelevant to immigration from non-EU countries.

When a close relative of mine was in hospital recently, I was incredibly grateful for immigration, as the majority of those caring for him were from ethnic minorities. Be careful what you wish for.

No because NI has nothing to do with me, my life or my family’s lives

It’s very depressing to see how little ppl value their fellow citizens lives.

Why is it depressing? The poster is being totally honest and reflects the reality that most human beings are largely only concerned about their immediate friends and family. If you don’t have direct connections to NI this seems like a very reasonable response.

And this “you’re an appalling person for not caring about NI” thing is a total smokescreen anyway. It plays into the Remainer identity/narrative (and by the way I voted Remain) that they are all good caring nice intelligent non-judgemental people who realllly care about their fellow citizens so much more than Leavers. And it is complete bilge. I mean how much do you care about people in this country who are genuinely distressed and concerned - for a myriad of reasons - at the massive local cultural changes that have happened over the last 25 years?

Not caring about the situation on the UK/Irish border isn't so much an indication of being an appalling person as being pig ignorant tbf. If you are too young to remember life before the GFA then you are young enough to go google "the troubles". My recollection of the past few years is that the UK population dont like being bombed very much, what's yours?

@PolarBearkshire

Maximus Headroom... all irish want is to be one country. They will separate from UK. So will Scotland. I am sure

No
They
Don't

I am constantly astounded about how people make bold claims about NI without any understanding of it whatsoever.

I am just waiting for some bright spark to suggest that Ireland should just leave the EU too to solve the problem

Please, please just spend 5 minutes looking up the difference between Republicans and Unionists before you make your next sweeping statement about the political views of 6 million people spanning across 2 countries.

If you live in NW England, what happens in NI has a helluva lot to do with your life. "The Manchester bomb" wasn't just the dreadful events at the Arianna Grande concert.
I'm old. You couldn't really find litter bins anywhere on the streets for a reason. Putting them back in was an act of faith. Google "Warrington Bomb" and see why.

maybe some of us can't understand why people continue to hate others who have different religious beliefs to them and who refuse to find a peaceful solution for their own country and/or refuse to "share" power with them.

A peaceful solution had been found. It works well. It’s called the GFA.

Brexiteers are about to willingly dismantle it in the full knowledge of what that means for the people there.