To think that people don't budget carefully enough these days?

[daffodilrosedaisy]

I've come across several people recently who are living hand to mouth, and struggling to afford things... BUT spend out on what I would consider unnecessary luxuries. Examples:

• Struggling to pay rent for a large family each month, ended up in huge debt to their landowners and got kicked out... but have newest iPhones, iPads for all the kids, big TV etc.

• Unable to pay for boiler and car to be fixed at the same time in winter, so had to take out a big loan to buy new ones of both, but go on two week holidays abroad, and again own high-end electronics.

I'm not referring to people that are never able to save, because their living costs equate to what they earn. I mean people who seem to get their priorities wrong and spend lots on 'luxuries' but don't budget for the basics like rent, and having a contingency fund for when things go wrong (broken boiler/car etc.).

AIBU in thinking this is ridiculous? Especially when people have families to care for?

instead of years wasted on German or the like

I wouldn't put it instead of languages. Languages are important. Learning a language is never a waste of time imo

I like @BarbaraofSeville idea.

The less money you have, the more important it tends to be to appear as though you're not struggling, even though this way of thinking is what keeps you hovering on the poverty line.
Another thing - a pair of expensive trainers will probably be the nicest item of clothing that they own, a fancy phone/tv will be the most of the only entertainment that is available to them, and the most of the world that they'll ever see.
Meanwhile, if you're middle class, you most likely travel, go to theatre and concerts, and own clothes that won't be a shame to wear when this season ends.

Emerald
Identify those periodic expenses that seem random but aren’t really e.g. new coats or shoes for the DC. I am a spreadsheet and budget fan and I put aside money each month for school uniform etc.

Big annual expenses e.g. Christmas get divided by 12 and saved for monthly.

Save up a emergency fund even £50 might help reduce the impact of a problem

Track your spending

Important one - budget for some fun money. That way you can still have a takeaway or buy the DC ice cream

@IAmALazyArse

Hahahaha. Totally thought you were telling me that you don’t give a fuck

😂😂

And @BeepBeeeep. Congratulations? I’m not really sure why that was directed at me. Were you homeless?

But in the old days before easy credit, people couldn't over-spend because they got paid in cash and paid their bills in cash, so the scope for getting into debt was greatly reduced

Ok, but not convinced people were any better at budgeting in ye olden days just because there weren't credit cards? It was just as easy to spend your wages on the 'wrong' things, surely?

Track your spending

Is the most important advice. Until you know where you money is going, you can't possibly start to bring it under control.

There are spreadsheets, apps, etc all freely/widely available yet people can't be arsed to use them.

More and more of the "new" banks have built in tracking/budgeting as part of online banking, but again, people can't be arsed to look at them.

My 17 year old has had a Monzo account for a few months now. First thing he did was set up his budgets for the bus fare, lunches, etc., and it showed him how many days he had on the current balance. He loves it and it will be brilliant for him when he's at Uni looking after his own spending and budgets etc.

@Jubba 😂 oops.
Seriously though. Read the book. Everyone should😁

Emerald Even with my budget there is always an extra to be paid shoes or coats, after school activities, broke appliances, family birthday gifts, DC invited to a party it all adds up

These sorts of things always crop up sooner or later. So even if you don't need to spend on one of these things this month you should put aside some of this month's money to cover it so it's there when you need it.

The amount doesn't have to be exact, you just need something reasonable, to get away from the idea that all the money that isn't needed for bills, food or transport is available for spending on fun stuff, because it isn't.

If you like, decide on an amount and put it in a 'irregular essentials' savings account, to be only used for those things. You might even be able to get an account with a card that pays a little bit of interest, so you can just spend straight from the account, and not have to move money around, and earn a little interest while the money is sitting there waiting to be spent.

It was just as easy to spend your wages on the 'wrong' things, surely?

Of course, but firstly, there was no "safety net" - spending too much in the pub had direct consequences, i.e. being unable to pay the milk man. Secondly, the mere act of handing over real cash was a "brake" in recklessnes - there have been research/studies on it, and people using cash spend less than those using cards. Finally, if you did go mad and blow all your cash in the pub, then basically you were screwed until next pay day, so you couldn't get into debt - you just did without - perfectly possible to survive on whatever you had in your kitchen for the maximum of a week or do a bit of borrowing from neighbours etc.

My MIL is exactly like this. Has a decent paying job £2000 a month rent is £52 a month yet she is still in arrears. It's just her living there. She wastes it on takeaways and video games. She has the cheek to ask us for money.

@kazzyhoward yes I understand that the consequences were different but I still don't think this means people were actually any better at budgeting? Some people were good at it, and some were living off stale bread for days and/or getting thrown out by the landlord because they spent their money on the 'wrong' things?

They are also judged for how their life looks on social media the way previous generations weren’t. Holidays phones and haircuts look good on photos, fixed boilers don’t!

I disagree. I don't think people are judged for how their life looks on social media. Have you honestly looked at a friends Facebook or Instagram account and though "They haven't posted any pics of holidays or new nails recently - what a loser". You think you are being judged when in reality you are simply craving approval. The only person judging you is yourself.

You think you are being judged when in reality you are simply craving approval. The only person judging you is yourself.

Amen!

I wonder how many people like this have some underlying sequencing problem as I have known three people like this - all of who had mild reading and writing problems and had struggled with school.

One of DH relatives - DGP- knew down to the penny where the cheapest item could be bought but kept making the mistake of buying the frozen stuff first then spending all day getting rest of shopping and finding frozen stuff was defrosted and unusable.

Odd thing was they didn’t learn – struggled with cooking meals and running household finances - so much so other family took tasks on. With my relative and a mother I knew it was more money and workloads and other odd things that they struggled with.

There were several conversations at children’s centre with this mother I knew and other parents – she couldn’t grasp that money at start of month the money coming in was allocated to things like rent and food we knew would be needed to be paid. The staff were good they signed her up for budgeting and when worked with her when she became a single parent and really struggled.

I do wonder if it’s like spellings – most pick it up fine – some like my kids need loads of additional explicit teaching and lots of overlearning. I wonder if it’s similar most pick up budgeting, some pick it up with some basic teaching and others really struggle and require loads of teaching which isn’t always happening and some may never grasp it.

These sorts of things always crop up sooner or later. So even if you don't need to spend on one of these things this month you should put aside some of this month's money to cover it so it's there when you need it.

When I was saving hard for a deposit - I found putting money straight into saving account when I got paid meant more would be saved. If I needed money towards end of month I could transfer it back but I rarely did this and it was surprisngly effective technique.

I find it much harder to save with kids - but I still put allocated money in seperate account - things like swimming money paid in 10 week blocks know it will come up so I try and put some away over the preeceding months.

Things like Christmas, birthdays and school uniform items we get over months. Holiday fund - DH pays into every month - when we have enough we look at what we can book - pay deposit and later balance then save for spending money then start again.

Last house made it really harder to build a buffer up - there were so many expesnive things going wrong all the time - since moving here we manage to build a good buffer up and it makes life so much easier when there are problems.

I agree. I have a friend who is always telling me I'm 'so lucky' to own my house and that they'll never be able to afford to despite her DH having a good job. She has a real chip on her shoulder about renting.

I'm not lucky. We worked long hours in good but stressful jobs, (which we got by working hard in the first place )saved really bloody hard for years, went without, and still budget carefully.

They on the other hand spend fortunes on things like new buggies every few months because she's bored of them, designer clothes, exotic/long holidays, latest gadgets - all four children have new IPads, even the 12m old - etc etc etc.

Sometimes luck definitely plays a hand in things. But also you sometimes have to make a conscious decision to be responsible for your own 'luck' and circumstances.

@Jubba
I've just gone over my posts and I can't see anywhere where I've said congratulations? Have you got the correct poster?
However, a little bit of useless information for you.
One of my lovely aunts, many years ago, got together with three of her friends and set up the first homeless shelter in their city with a funding of £20 between them for paint to tart the building up with.
The shelter was hugely successful and despite being 92 now, still has an active input.
If I were going to congratulate anyone it would be her.

She's 92, not the shelter.

Wow. That’s amazing. Thanks for congratulating her......

It’s so nice when people appreciate what you do!

Only read up to page 10 but yes, OP, I totally get where you’re coming from. It’s the “you’re so much richer than me” type comments that I can’t stand. It’s so bad-mannered that I think people who DO budget should just forget their own manners and call them out on it: “richer? No? Good at budgeting? Yes. You should try it sometime, we’re on similar incomes with similar outgoings I think, so it’s definitely doable if you want to hear more about how to do it .” We are far too scared to tell others that they are talking out their arse. Impulsive spending often leads to an impulsive style of conversation. Say what you think. Someone who thinks carefully about what they’re spending tends to think about what they say.

“If you work hard, living a life with no treats at all is miserable- what are you working for, exactly?”

You’re looking in the wrong place for your treats, I’d say. “Stuff” doesn’t bring you happiness. A game of cards at home with your family or close friends with lots of laughter and chat costs nothing and can bring more true happiness than an expensive night out.

A treat could be settling down with a good book (from the library) and a cuppa in a bubble bath uninterrupted by anyone for a hour. These things don’t have to cost much.

the older I get the more I realise that material possessions just don’t matter and in fact even buying seemingly cheap stuff like gel pens bothers me recently with the excess plastic and climate change worries. Looking at a nice sunset out the window makes me smile. Being inside all cosy on a horrible grey drizzly day makes me smile if I have a nice hot drink, a good book and sole loved ones nearby.

In times gone by, most working class people had nothing. Nothing. But they had each other, they had community spirit, neighbours to chat to, other kids for their kids to play out with. I fear we are all too obsessed with working ourselves to death to acquire STUFF or Instagram-worthy experiences rather than thinks about what brings true happiness. Facebook has killed joy.

Oh, and it all started with Carol Smilie! No wonder she’s disappeared from our screens! She’s realised what demons she unleashed with the first reality lifestyle show that was Changing Rooms.

butternutsquashy I don't hate you and I don't think you're stupid. I admire you for finding the energy and effort to study on top of working full time, and I agree that it is much easier to live on two salaries. However I do think you are being a a bit misguided saying it's 'only you' that has to deal with the results of your decisions. How do you think courts are funded, for example (tax payers!) - if so much money wasn't wasted on debtors there would be more for more serious cases. Do you really think that your decision not to pay your bills has absolutely no effect on how lenders decide who to lend to and at what rates? Do you honestly not think there's a knock on effect, whereby if a large amount of people keep defaulting on payments that company will eventually stop offering payment in arrears, or will keep increasing the interest rate, thereby affecting everyone?

With Council tax, for example, the reason most councils are set up so people pay their whole years worth over 10 months (and then should have Feb and March 'free') is because so many people kept defaulting on their monthly payments they were in a deficit at the same time as starting the new financial year, so payments were sorted so that this way people who have missed a month or two at least have two months to catch up.

You speak about your colleagues being 'lucky enough' to have low rent or cheap mortgages - do you honestly think that a landlord with two identical houses in the same street would be 'Well I'll charge butternutsquash x amount, but her colleague only half that, for shits and giggles?' They don't somehow 'just happen' to have cheaper housing, they presumably have made the choice to have smaller homes/in non so nice areas/further away from work, or saved to put down a big deposit to get a lower mortgage. It's not 'luck' it's different choices!

Curly I agree
I weirdly have a yen for the war years as I really admire how people got on with very little and made do . I am obviously not eulogising the deaths and sheer awfulness
But the attitudes were admirable

All this fucking shit we are told we need and we don’t . I am having kids party tomorrow and I refuse to do take home bags . I am buying re useable cups . I will
Wash up plates. I am even stressing about the bloody pizza boxes. I hate it and I know I am In it - I want to see a revolution

The thing about "We are all pressured into having xxx thing and likes" is fascinating because there is always SO MANY PEOPLe who say they hate it. Don't do it then. I don't keep up with Joneses. I have cheap dresses, cheaper shoes etc. Mix it up, add bits of accessories and done. No one ever commented badly on it. I amke my own simple party food. People usually text for recipes later. If all people who say how much they hate all the pretending and materialism stopped buying and pretending, others would one by one join in.
Kids party? Make it the way you want it, not the way others want it.
Christmas presents? No need to be flashy just for the sake of it if you don't want to.
Clothes? There is genuinely no NEED for 150 quid trainers. Unless it doesn't make dent in your money at all.
And so on. And so on.

As I said. Others will eventually happily catch up with it. Since it seems like everyone is quite fed up of the putting on a show thing. I know my circles are and are actually actively working towards just not giving a fuck about others😁