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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think these two things are exactly the same...?

63 replies

smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:24

Heated debate with male friend who, until now, I shared very similar views with. Need some opinions on if the comparison I gave was reasonable.

We started having a general discussion about dating and meeting people, and he was telling the general ways he likes to flirt with women on nights out or online. Some of the things he was mentioning was a bit "forward", for example touching her arm or back while chatting with her at a bar, trying to dance very closely to her, grinding on a girl he likes the look of, making sexual jokes to her and stuff like that.

I said that it would be a bit weird to do some of that to someone you'd just met and were trying to talk to, not even yet knowing their name.

He said I was being ridiculous and that girls like it when guys come up and grind on them in clubs etc. I disagreed strongly, saying a lot of women aren't keen on feeling some random guys knob pushing up against them purposely in a club, which is when I then gave the comparison:

" Don't do anything to a girl in a club, that you wouldn't want a gay man to do to you . If she does not reciprocate the behaviour, it is because it makes her uncomfortable and she is not interested in you. It would be the same as if a gay man was flirting with you by doing these things, I can guarantee that you partly due to your massive ego would hit the roof if another bloke pushed his package into your arse while you're trying to dance with friends".

He didn't understand this, saying how the gay man would know he isn't interested as he is straight (like that is in any way obvious unless they had asked him?!).

Anyway, am I unreasonable to think that if blokes acted towards him the way he acted towards girls, he would have a massive issue with it? And not just him, but guys in general. The amount of men who would happily send a random girl some gross, inappropriate message in the hopes of getting a sexy response, but would be outraged if another man sent them the same message with the same intentions.

OP posts:
pussincahoots · 03/09/2019 14:27

Does he also get shitty if a woman doesn’t take her headphones off when he tells her to?

Original poster
smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:27

For example, I had a guy grab my bum in a club on a night out and give it a proper squeeze. I turned around to confront him and both him and his mates were laughing and finding it hilarious. This is the sort of thing that my male friend's friends (if that makes sense) would find amusing, and sadly my male friend would probably laugh at this and think "it's only banter".

But if a man was interested in my male friend and squeezed his butt in the same way, my male friend and his entire group would probably kick off about it.

I CAN'T GET THROUGH TO HIM THAT THIS IS THE SAME THING, grrrr.

OP posts:
TartanCurtains1 · 03/09/2019 14:28

YANBU. And he sounds like a creep.

Original poster
smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:29

@pussincahoots

Don't even start me on that. I think if I bring that topic up with him, I can only dread what the replies will be Confused

OP posts:
LadyOfTheCanyon · 03/09/2019 14:30

" I absolutely love having my arse and tits groped in a club by a complete stranger" said No Woman Ever.

Tableclothing · 03/09/2019 14:30

I think you are correct. (how the hell does the know the women he targets are interested, or appreciate that kind of approach, until they've told him to stop?)

But lots of men get really pissed off if you imply that either they, or their understanding of everything, may be imperfect.

AryaStarkWolf · 03/09/2019 14:31

You're dead right and ugh your friend sounds like a creep. I'd punch him in the face if he started rubbing his cock on me when i was out in a bar

AmIThough · 03/09/2019 14:31

He likes to sexually assault women to let them know he's keen? Sounds like a catch.

dollydaydream114 · 03/09/2019 14:31

I think you're absolutely right and I've had similar conversations with men myself. I've had men tell me they'd love it if a random woman groped them on public transport (which I actually don't believe anyway - they'd actually be horrified and freaked out, in reality) but when I've said 'OK, so what if a gay man groped you?' they've been appalled and said 'But that's different.' Well, no. No it isn't. It's someone you're not attracted to you behaving in a way you feel is violating - it's exactly the same.

Also, even if your friends benchmark for when it's OK to 'grind' on someone is 'both parties must be of the opposite sex and straight' he has absolutely no idea, when he grinds against some poor girl, if she is straight herself. Even if he assumes all straight women love this (which they clearly don't) he has no way of knowing whether the women he's grabbing hold of are straight at all.

Not actually sure why this bloke is your friend to be honest, he sounds vile.

BogglesGoggles · 03/09/2019 14:33

Have you asked him his success rate? If women actually liked it that I bet he’d sleep with far more than he does at present.

AryaStarkWolf · 03/09/2019 14:34

(how the hell does the know the women he targets are interested, or appreciate that kind of approach, until they've told him to stop?)

If they're not they're probably lesbians ............

Original poster
smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:36

@dollydaydream114 LITERALLY!!!

He made the same bloody point! "Oh I wouldn't mind if a girl did it to me", well yes, of course you wouldn't, you're out looking for a shag with a girl so of course you'd be interested. If someone who you aren't interested in did it, such as a gay man, that would be a much more accurate comparison! But nooooo, that would be wrong apparently >:(

OP posts:
DoomsdayCult · 03/09/2019 14:36

He’s clearly wrong and a sex pest.
But your comparison of “what if a gay man did this to you” is also wrong.
Better to have said, what if Katy Perry did this to you....

Reallynowdear · 03/09/2019 14:37

I imagine he has been single for a while. What an arse.

pussincahoots · 03/09/2019 14:37

@AryaStarkWolf Or frigid. What normal hot-blooded woman wouldn’t want some stranger in the darkness grinding his grotty wang into her while she’s trying to dance.

Original poster
smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:38

And may I just add to all who are wondering, this male friend is no longer a friend. He has changed so much recently since he has made a new group of "LADS LADS LADS" friends at his new job, and this mindset he has started to adopt whilst spending weekends out in the town with this is something I want nothing to do with. He never used to be like this, he used to be the nicest person who was respectful to everyone, it is almost heartbreaking :(

OP posts:
DoomsdayCult · 03/09/2019 14:38

They do actually mind when women do it to them. Just ask any Scot in a kilt.

pussincahoots · 03/09/2019 14:40

@smokeytoby Incorrect. He was always like this. You just didn’t know it.

Sorry you lost a fiend.

Ponoka7 · 03/09/2019 14:40

I've always used the gay man analogy.

If Men aren't capable of better behaviour, why aren't they getting regularly 'cat called' /groped etc by gay men and why wouldn't that be ok?

I was chatting to a man, whilst with my Grandchildren. He threw into the conversation that "he's in his 70's, but goes like a 50 year old", along with other bullshit. Why he thought that was appropriate i don't know.

Unfortunately, these dick heads don't grow out of this behaviour.

ComftyCushion · 03/09/2019 14:42

Obviously the women he grinds on are holding up signs stating that they are single and want to be sexually assaulted... because if not how can he gauge this before his put his person on them? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Original poster
smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:44

potential SA trigger

Whilst on the topic, another analogy I hate is when people are talking about rape victims and what they wore, saying "Well what did they expect?! If you put steak in front of a dog it's going to eat it?"

Which 1. compares men to nothing more than dogs with animal intelligence who cannot control their urges and 2. if I tell my hungry Labrador "no", he doesn't touch the steak.

WHO INVENTED THESE RIDICULOUS MINDSETS

...can you tell I am wound up?

OP posts:
Thymejuice · 03/09/2019 14:46

They do actually mind when women do it to them. Just ask any Scot in a kilt.

Yesterday's Metro (think it was yesterday) had an article about a woman being found guilty of sexual assault after pinching a man's bum. He was a police officer but I don't think his job was relevant to the charge.

DoomsdayCult · 03/09/2019 14:57

“Yesterday's Metro (think it was yesterday) had an article about a woman being found guilty of sexual assault after pinching a man's bum. He was a police officer but I don't think his job was relevant to the charge.”

Well was he wearing his uniform? We women cannot resist a man in uniform! (Sarcastic Joking)

Seriously, that is exactly right. Most men do not like it. I had a low key friend (now ex friend for this reason), who while telling her incredibly complex dietary needs to a waiter less than half her age started to touch his shoulder and then stroked his face! The whole table was gobsmacked and we just gaped. The poor young man ran off (and never came back, can you blame him?).

DoomsdayCult · 03/09/2019 14:59

So, not to get off topic, the OPs ex male friend is a sleaze. She was right when she said he would not like a woman doing it to him, he just didn’t want to admit it.

DoomsdayCult · 03/09/2019 15:02

Obviously the women he grinds on are holding up signs stating that they are single and want to be sexually assaulted...

Yes, like a lower back tattoo that says “insert here”

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