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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think these two things are exactly the same...?

63 replies

smokeytoby · 03/09/2019 14:24

Heated debate with male friend who, until now, I shared very similar views with. Need some opinions on if the comparison I gave was reasonable.

We started having a general discussion about dating and meeting people, and he was telling the general ways he likes to flirt with women on nights out or online. Some of the things he was mentioning was a bit "forward", for example touching her arm or back while chatting with her at a bar, trying to dance very closely to her, grinding on a girl he likes the look of, making sexual jokes to her and stuff like that.

I said that it would be a bit weird to do some of that to someone you'd just met and were trying to talk to, not even yet knowing their name.

He said I was being ridiculous and that girls like it when guys come up and grind on them in clubs etc. I disagreed strongly, saying a lot of women aren't keen on feeling some random guys knob pushing up against them purposely in a club, which is when I then gave the comparison:

" Don't do anything to a girl in a club, that you wouldn't want a gay man to do to you . If she does not reciprocate the behaviour, it is because it makes her uncomfortable and she is not interested in you. It would be the same as if a gay man was flirting with you by doing these things, I can guarantee that you partly due to your massive ego would hit the roof if another bloke pushed his package into your arse while you're trying to dance with friends".

He didn't understand this, saying how the gay man would know he isn't interested as he is straight (like that is in any way obvious unless they had asked him?!).

Anyway, am I unreasonable to think that if blokes acted towards him the way he acted towards girls, he would have a massive issue with it? And not just him, but guys in general. The amount of men who would happily send a random girl some gross, inappropriate message in the hopes of getting a sexy response, but would be outraged if another man sent them the same message with the same intentions.

OP posts:
NiteFlights · 03/09/2019 19:29

Glad you’re not friends with him any more. If he openly states these opinions (sexual assault is a-okay - women like it!) heaven knows what dreadful opinions he keeps to himself.

I like your gay man analogy. Putting sexuality to one side, it’s a question of being assaulted by or being in a threatening situation with someone who’s bigger and stronger than you, who won’t take kindly to being rejected or told ‘no’.

AWitchesHat · 03/09/2019 19:54

@smokeytoby I 100% agree with you. Never heard the steak analogy before though and am actually flabbergasted that it is used by utter wankers a thing. Good lord.
So glad he’s no longer a friend.

newtb · 03/09/2019 20:47

Reading this thread has brought something back to me from either the 70s or early 80s. Some unpleasant git (probably with a beer gut) was justifying sex with underage girls with a shrug of the shoulders and saying "Oh well, if they're old enough to bleed....." so if an 11 or 12 year old had gone through puberty she would obviously welcome (probably unprotected) sex with a man in his 40s.

It made me want to throw up

Probably in some quarters, it's still being said, thankfully that's the only time I've heard it.

STBXH (wonder why?) used to there are the women you fancy and the ones you marry. I did ask once, and he said it was the only acceptable way for him to leave home......bless!

newtb · 03/09/2019 20:48

to say

Roozy123 · 03/09/2019 20:54

@LadyOfTheCanyon
😂😂😂 so true.

rededucator · 03/09/2019 21:09

OP I hadn't heard that comparison before but I love it!

MerryBerryCheesecake · 03/09/2019 21:43

I find it astounding that some men think grinding on a random woman is sexually arousing for her.

I find it disgusting behaviour but also laughable because it just makes me think of a dog humping someone's leg. Who the fuck wants to be thought of as an out of control dog and why would they think it would get them some sex. Mind boggling.

I've no doubt a few women might respond well to it but I think they would be few and far between.

CharityConundrum · 03/09/2019 22:30

I think the comparison with a gay man is far more accurate than the comparison with a woman that they don't find attractive. It's not about whether the person fancies the other person or not, it's about how they feel about telling them that. It's understanding feeling as though they need to appease the person who is touching them in an unwelcome way because of the fear of being physically overpowered.

I don't think many men who have been touched inappropriately by women would necessarily have felt as physically vulnerable to the whim of a stranger to the point where they put up with unacceptable behaviour because they're worried about how much worse it could be if they say or do 'the wrong' thing.

smokeytoby · 04/09/2019 09:07

spot on @CharityConundrum !

Thank you all for the replies, I am SO glad it wasn't just me thinking that this was outrageous.

OP posts:
rededucator · 06/09/2019 19:55

I agree he's a creep and good for you for calling him out on it, however, I think touching a lady's arm or a hand on the back is different from grinding on her while dancing or jumping her leg. I remember my first date with OH and the explosion of excitement when his hand brushed my arm. He did not jump my leg or grind on my crotch.

rededucator · 06/09/2019 19:56

*hump!

TheTrollFairy · 06/09/2019 20:05

My arse would he like it if ‘any’ girl did this to him. He would only like it if his type of girl did it to him.

So him saying that a guy ‘would know he didn’t want it as he’s straight’ how does he know that a girl he’s grinding against isn’t gay?

People like your ex friend disgust me

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 06/09/2019 20:26

This is basically what Bruno Langley did.

Apart from the fact that he:-

Got a criminal record
Is on the sex offenders register
Was sacked from his job on Corrie
Ruined his entire career
Is now known as “shamed Bruno Langley” by the tabloids

It worked out pretty well for him!

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