To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

I was around in the 50s, I had a bath every day - just like now - clean underwear every day and nothing was worn more than a couple of times before it was washed. Hair was combed, shoes were polished, I can’t remember anyone looking scruffy.

I think the judgement I make is: scruffy/dirty clothes/ smell of your bed because you haven't showered or sprayed anything...to me it equates to laziness. You haven't got high standards for the way you present yourself/your house/ your kids so therefore you are less likely to have standards in other areas - your work, driving, care and consideration towards others. Other contributory factors such as mental health obviously excluded. If you choose to be scruffy and/or smelly and are proud of yourself for it then that's what I think.

I accept that's not everyone's view but it's mine and I haven't resorted to name calling anyone who disagrees with me, despite being called a few things myself. I have higher standards than that

@Camomila Uniqlo and Asos both had lots of lovely cotton dresses this summer. Cool and a bit retro.

Alsohuman so did DP but he was what my family at the time considered to be quite posh and quite well off.

I presume you had indoor plumbing.

I remember before moving from our council house before it was bulldozed and visiting one of the new tower block flats and my gran eyeing the indoor toilet with suspicion. Her view was it was a filthy thing.

But you have no evidence at all for thinking that. There is no rational reason for applying high standards to superficial things, apart from wanting to avoid the scorn of people like you. Which rational people may or may not care about.

My observations are my evidence, my life experience and that of family and friends. Isn't that what a lot of us base our opinions on? Maybe I should start an official study to make you happy.

I don’t know anyone who didn’t have indoor plumbing. My parents didn’t as children but they were both born during WW1. We weren’t posh at all, we were very ordinary.

Correlation is not causation.

I should add I am sat on my sofa ATM with what looks like branches from half a large shrub in my hair trying to get up the energy to go and have a shower.

Would you judge me if you saw me in Sainsbury's

The worse drivers I know (speeding fines/banned from driving etc) have homes that are spotless.

I don't think one equates to the other.

Interesting that you allude to Quirrel’s high standards At least you acknowledge that most people can’t be arsed to attain them. It’s not a stretch to see that extends to other areas of life.

longest

..and your opinion isn't sacrosanct. Or have you never learned this?

I don’t know anyone who didn’t have indoor plumbing

Lots of people didn't.

I know some didn't get indoor toilets till the 70s

I come from a council estate in northern England that was a slum.

We know it was officially a slum because it was part of the slum clearance programme

And your point is? We had different experiences. So what?

I should add I am sat on my sofa ATM with what looks like branches from half a large shrub in my hair trying to get up the energy to go and have a shower.
Would you judge me if you saw me in Sainsbury's

Yes I would, as it takes 5 minutes to put a brush through your hair and tie it neatly back. 10 minutes max if you're also removing shrubs.

Who are you addressing @alsohuman?

I think I am probably pretty scruffy, though it depends on how you judge. I am quite a fan of a cotton sundress as it happens. My house is definitely a tip though. You'd probably write me off as a waster.

But I am I think a decent person. I have a professional job that my clients and bosses think I do well, I volunteer in the community, I help out friends and neighbours. I have high standards for my DC in terms of education, behaviour, etc. I even have zero points on my licence(!).

Maybe I am lazy, in that I only put effort into things that I think are worthwhile and I feel no guilt about spending a day off reading a book in the sunshine, or an evening in front of the telly, even if the house is looking worse for wear, but I am not causing the collapse of humanity, I promise, and there are plenty of people like me. Einstein had scruffy clothes and hair but pretty high standards when it came to scientific rigour. It is lazy shorthand to see one thing and assume another.

I don't think I'm a freak if nature. I know plenty of people like me.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I know my opinion isn't sacrosanct. That's why I keep an open mind and try to look for evidence before i act on it.

Longest

I also know plenty of people like me. You say you are open-minded but you are completely closed to anyone else's opinion but your own and when someone disagrees with you, you insult.. 'you sound ridiculous' or 'I don't know what you're talking about'. I don't want to throw insults back but the fact you did that speaks volumes. Your clients etc are probably scared to disagree with you!

@Quirrelsotherface

Let me help you here.

These are not insults, these are opinions:

" 'you sound ridiculous' or 'I don't know what you're talking about'"

These are insults:

"Pompous, self righteous twit."

"Arrogant ignorant busybody"

HTH

I didn't think they were insults either. I genuinely didn't know what you meant. I did say you sound ridiculous, but that was in relation to a one off comment. You clearly care about building a better world, I imagine you have lots of good qualities. But I disagree with you. That's allowed.

@aliteralAIBUforonce

You are so kind as to help me!

Can I check into which category you would place 'Oh do fuck off, dear'?

@longestlurkerever

You say appearance is "superficial". But I bet you'd have a thing or two to say if I showed up at your house naked from the waist down or in a pair of tiny underpants.

@Quirrelsotherface

You have been dishing it out more than just a bit in some of your posts. You can't complain about getting some back.

My observations are my evidence, my life experience and that of family and friends.

That's what's known as 'anecdata'

Its validity is precisely zero. Hope that helps.

Bloody Hell, OP, what happened to 'live and let live'?

superficial
/ˌsuːpəˈfɪʃ(ə)l/
adjective
1.
existing or occurring at or on the surface.

Appearance is quite literally superficial.

I didn't think we disagreed on that - you said one could assume laziness in respect of deeper things from laziness in relation to appearance. That was what I disagreed with.

Indecency is a wholly different kettle of fish from scruffiness. In any case your initial complaint was about socialnoems changing (a move away from formal attire being the main acceptable everyday dress) not about people ignoring contemporary social norms.

As I said earlier, I can see where you are coming from with your point of view. But I prefer to reserve judgment till I have actual evidence of something. Everyone makes assumptions, I'm not claiming to be immune to a very human way of thinking, but when challenged I think it's better to reassess whether they're actually justified, rather than dig your heels in and insist that they must be.

Quite a few people have said scruffy appearance = laziness but I wasn't one of them. Apart from some unimportant observations, my two points have been that men can't dress up because they would stand out (which is a shame) and dressing smartly is a way, used more often in the past, of showing respect to other people, so it's not just superficial.

Indecency is really just (superficial) appearance that's so far away from norms that it scandalises people. So the fact that you resort to it proves my point. Here's someone who really believes that appearances are nothing more than superficial and to say otherwise is somehow dishonest.