To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

I remember reading in the call the midwife books (based on true stories by Jennifer Worth) that it was cheaper to have your clithes made fof you back then that buying them from a shop so people probably did it this way so it looked better (1950's -1960's) and i understand that "off the peg" clothes weren't made until the 1950s (but don't quote me).

Clothes made for you *

Honestly. I’m so glad to live today where a woman isn’t solely judged on how she looks and how clean her house is.

i understand that "off the peg" clothes weren't made until the 1950s (but don't quote me).

They were, but the quality was very poor. In one of George Orwell's books there is a description of a frightful shop called "Knockout Trousers" in 1930s Lambeth, which in those days was one of the poorest parts of London.

Totally agree witj you op. I saw a video the other day on FB, it was London in the 60s and everyone was dressed so nicely. Men in suits, women in dresses or nice skirts. They all just looked really well styled and women also had really nice hair. I also noted that there was not one fat person either!!

My godmother was fat in the 60s. I think she had thyroid issues or something, but was constantly on a diet and constantly assumed to be greedy/have no will power.

I think it was a horrible time tbh. No understanding of certain health conditions, sexist behaviour was the norm. My mum grew up in the 60s and says it wasn't all free love and hippy shit - it was quite conservative, even in London for normal people.

Yes @Whatevertrevor19 but you were seeing well to do people dressed up for a day in town 🤦‍♀️. You weren’t seeing ordinary working men in their dungarees or housewives in their pinnies. You got a snapshot of maybe 100 yards of one street in one city. That doesn’t represent the whole of the U.K. for an entire decade ffs.

In a parallel street, there were still tenement slums with half clothed children playing in the gutters while their “scruffy” poverty stricken parents desperately tried to feed them. Are those the times you want to return to, just to get rid of those oh-so-offensive fat people, because I sure as hell don’t.

I've got a friend from Hungary and I always joke (in a nice way) how she looks like someone from the 1940's in elegant, well fitting classic style clothes and shoes.

Her clothes aren't vintage or particularly expensive it's just her style but she stands out a mile from the crowds all in leggings, puffa jackets, trainers, uggs etc

Honestly. I’m so glad to live today where a woman isn’t solely judged on how she looks and how clean her house is.

A lot of people still silently judge women on exactly those things.

I'll judge anyone on how clean their house is. Mess - who cares? But when I encounter a dirty bathroom I'll judge like crazy, no matter whether the owner is a man or woman.

No one is suggesting that women squeeze themselves into Scarlett O'Hara corsets or teeter around on high heels or even wear a hat. The observation is that many women and men don't seem to give a shit that their clothes are grubby and that others don't want to share space with their pyjamas/jogging bottoms.

I posted earlier that the worst offenders are in the cinema - the culprits being (30s) men. The cinema is not your sitting room! Why are you wearing dirty jogging bottoms, smelly t-shirt and have so much grease in your hair you could fry chips in it. It's not just me who can't bear it; ds has said he's not going to that particular cinema any more.

My great aunt in the forties and fifties was fat. I now look exactly like the photo I have of her.

I think there's just as much judging on appearance as there ever was. Just because people dress less smartly doesn't mean they've got any nicer about their views on other people's dress.

What judgment do you make though? That's what I don't get? How can you draw sweeping conclusions about a person's whole character based on the priority they put on the cleanliness or otherwise of bathrooms? It makes no sense. Surely judged on any rational basis appearances, of houses or of people, are simply not a priority? Now I am not saying that everyone who has a messy appearance or messy house is dedicated that saved time to helping others and saving the world but my point is why aren't we judging people on the amount are not spending helping others or saving the world, rather than the time they are not spending on this irrelevant shit?

Obviously that post is full of typos. But hope you got the gist.

What I meant was that I have no particular view on how other people spend their time - ironing petticoats or counting their stamp collection or whatever, if it doesn't impact on me crack on. But if you are going to take the stance that people owe it to strangers to spend their time in particular ways, why choose personal grooming and housework to get on your high horse about? Why not start dictating that people spend more time on looking for a cure for cancer or fighting the Amazon fires or whatever?

@amandacarnet so was mine, but amusingly the rest of the family always made excuses saying it was her “glands” or something, like they were embarrassed. She never said that though, she just liked her food. She still always wore those bloody corsets though.

@ gingersausage - yes you are most probably right, but it was still very nice to see. I honestly didn't even think or consider the people were dressed up for a day out I should of explained more on my view of 'no fat people', what I should of added is it was before processed/freezer food days and people would of eaten fresh produce and home cooked meals.

@longestlurkerever,

Well, I'd give this example. A couple of decades ago, men in my line of work would have worn a suit and tie to work every day. That's ended. If I wore a suit and tie to my office today, my colleagues who didn't know me well might think I was putting on airs. Those who did would probably be a bit puzzled and crack a few jokes at my expense. So what you wear does now - as it always did - show that you understand the unwritten rules of what other people's expectations of you are (this is why autistic people have such a bad time of it.) I think only a small number of people genuinely don't really care. Plenty more will say they don't and may believe they don't, but they really do actually.

As for messy houses, I have friend who I genuinely do like, but I absolutely hate being in her house. It looks like a whirlwind has just gone through and so I find I can't relax there. We have to meet at my house instead (which is probably averagely clean and tidy).

You haven't persuaded me. There are plenty of ways I would prefer people acted but I have limited sphere of influence and I am not going to waste my time worrying about this stuff.

We have more freedom now to wear whatever we like. And most people don't like wearing very formal clothing.

This is a good thing.

We do have freedom but as standards in clothing have dropped, so have hygiene standards, people not washing, grubby, greasy hair. It is everywhere if you go into any large town. Where is it heading if the general attitude is 'I don't care, I can do as I please' ?

You sound ridiculous Quirrel. First standards of cleanliness have not dropped so that I have noticed. Secondly, why should it lead anywhere? You seem to draw a parallel between not caring about superficial stuff like clothing and not caring about how you actually treat other people where I see no such parallel. In fact I think if we stop worrying about trivia like clothes we have more time to worry about what might actually build a better society.

Quirrelsotherface should have been around in the 60s when a lot of us didn't have indoor plumbing and bath time was a tin bath where you got your turn in the water in order of age once per week and clothes were worn over and over before being washed

I work from home 3 days a week - my partner sometimes comes home and is like 'oooh, you're in your fancy pyjamas'

For what it's worth I shower at 6am, get the kids out, walk the dogs and settle in my office by 8.30 - and yes, I have spanky pjs to wear 'to work'

This thread has proved, yet again, that we don't all believe the same things are important. The differences between urban and rural poverty are particularly interesting (even though it is possible to be equally poor in both settings) because the available choices are so opposite. In rural poverty, it's often easy to feast your eyes on epic, remote landscapes by walking half a mile. In urban poverty, with a travel card, there's nothing to keep you out of the museums that are custodians of the world's treasures. Yet poorer people think those barriers are impassible to "people like me". Reminded of somethinig I read 25 years ago, about newly prosperous citizens of emerging economies: eventually, they will want to visit the Cevennes and admire the scenery that the Impressionists painted and watch birds, but in the mean time, bring on the fun fairs.