To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

Not many people go to the trouble of darning socks now - why bother when you can cheap replacements from the supermarket?
Not to mention that when the wife was at home darning socks the husband was frequently in the pub drinking the price of several pairs of socks.

I still darn wooly tights.

My gran taught all 3 of her boys to knit their own wooly socks for winter.

@Lincolnfield

With respect, I'm basing what I said on what my grandmothers told me. One of which is very much alive.

You're remembering your childhood, where it's always sunny.

I do think we could do with repairing stuff more. Many people don't seem to know how to sew on a button or take up a hem.

The throwaway culture needs to change for a whole host of reasons.

Cheap clothing tat suits the wearer can still look good.

A very overweight woman wearing a tight, short skirt with a crop top does not look nice. maybe she doesn't want to and that is fine but if she thinks she looks good then she is hugely mistaken.

A man wearing jeans so low that you can see the crack of his arse looks like the arse he is he presenting and I'm not so comfortable with that.

People rolling out of bed to go to the shop in their nightclothes are dirty bastards and are part of a society that no longer cares what anyone thinks. That is not fine because if you don't care what anyone thinks, why stop spitting, swearing, pissing, thumping someone, in public.

Not caring what anyone thinks and using your dress as an outward sign of saying this is a step downwards for us all.

I think modern clothes are often harder to repair/take up because they are more stretchy (vaguely remembers GCSE textiles)

Hopefully environmentalism will make people have a go at repairing stuff/upcycling. I keep seeing tutorials on how to make toddler clothes from adult ones.

The throwaway culture needs to change for a whole host of reasons

I agree. Far too much emphasis on recycling, which may make people feel good, still uses up enormous amounts of energy, precious resources, etc. Repairing things and not buying as much in the first place is FAR better for the environment, sustainability etc. I've been saying for years that VAT should be reduced/zeroised on all forms of repairs and replacement parts etc so that repairing something you already have is far cheaper than buying a replacement, thus massively reducing landfill, recycling etc.

It won't let me post a link but there was an article in the guardian called

Gimme Shelter: Hard lives in British Cities.

Google it.

It has some quite brutal pictures of daily life in the 60's & 70's

Not sure if we can consider them well dressed though.

You have to be 'posh' or very rich to be allowed to be scruffy in Britain

For the rest of us povos we have to pull our socks up to impress the invisible judgement

My mum was from a very poor family but in every picture of her from when she was young (late 1940's, early 1950's) she would be wearing a beautiful dress with a matching ribbon. In one picture she is wearing a lovely coat and she told me that she remembers a lady making it for her from an old coat.

I used to work for BA and my observation is that the scruffiest passengers are often the ones who turn left at the door. I don't think class or wealth dictate what people wear any more. I think it's great that we are all free to wear what we feel comfortable in without societal constraints. On the other hand, I recently attended my great nephew's christening and was very impressed by how elegant, smart and appropriately dressed all the guests were. They were all ages and backgrounds and no dress code was sent out. I now work in an office where it's fine to wear jeans and even flip flops if it's hot. It means lm comfortable and relaxed and not spending money on formal attire which l don't like. Customers do pop into the office but there is no expectation for me to wear a smart outfit! Vive la clothing revolution....

I think it is more complicated than that, Laurie Fairy cake.

There are many who don't give a shit what society thinks about them. They behave in a way that shows that. They roar in the streets, they get pissed in public, they spit, they they tell teachers, police, doctors, judges passers by to fuck off.

They go to places like York with giant plastic cocks with their tits and arses hanging out.

We all know who they are and we know what they do. They have no respect for society and many of them make an outward show of that by the way that they dress.

Showing their fannies and tits, their arsecracks; going out in pyjamas is a big Fuck You to the rest of us.

@donotcovertheradiator

I know the type. From experience, people acting like that are generally the ones wearing the most make up, designer gear, false nails etc.

It's not their clothing that's the problem it's their behaviour.

We're a family of scruffy hippies as are most my of friends. Judging us by the same standards would be beyond silly.

Primark May be marketed as the wear once and non fashion however for those of us on a tight budget it can last some time. They sell many a smart outfit in there for work. Not everyone can afford the expense of an expensive suit each day.Absolutely! So much snobbery about 'throw away fashion' but I've yet to meet anyone who shops in Primark who throws away clothes. Just a way to sneer at people who can't afford or won't pay utterly rip off prices. Their clothes are good quality and I've had plenty from there that lasts for years.

Not everyone is perfect as you and used ‘per se’ in sentences 🙄 Do you ever think that those people you see not well dressed like how they dress and do not worry about what strangers on the street think. Some people use ever ounce of energy they have to get out of the house whilst battling depression, mental or chronic illnesses, they only care about going to get a prescription/milk/dropping kids to school. Its not all corsets and petticoats now, back in ‘the olden days’ best clothes cost a fortune the were worn and repaired over again. Get with the times, you sound like my mother

@aliteralAIBUforonce I was going to say the same thing. The “going to York with plastic willies” brigade spend a literal fortune on clothes, shoes, makeup and grooming. The last thing they would ever want to be thought of as is scruffy. They might be “common” and loud and lairy, but they will be dressed to the nines whilst doing it. If they do happen to go to the supermarket in their pyjamas, they will be washed and ironed and from Boux Avenue or Victoria’s Secret, not Primark.

I think people are wilfully mis-imagining what the OP means by scruffy, or maybe its me who’s misinterpreting it. Scruffy to me isn’t (as someone so delightfully said upthread) an overweight woman in a tight short skirt and a crop top. That’s not scruffy because she’s dressed up to go out, and who gives a shit how much she weighs ffs, that’s none of anyone’s business. Scruffy is unbrushed hair, grotty sweatpants with an equally grotty t-shirt (unless you are gardening or doing something that warrants dirty clothes). Scruffy is always being dirty and unkempt, even though you own a perfectly good washing machine and working shower. Scruffy is somehow taking pride in looking like shit. Scruffy has zero to do with weight, relative wealth or lack of it, or class.

@gingersausage Yes!!!! Well said

I have really enjoyed looking at the old photos. Thanks to everyone who posted them.

Also, we need to hear more from @TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince (the fashion historian).

The poster who commented on the photo of the striking men in the 1920s - that they dressed smartly in order to be taken seriously - had it right, I think. Other posters will know more about the sociology than me, but wasn’t it about, for men at least, giving yourself physical substance with wool and tailoring? It was also, I think, about adopting a similar dress code to the people with wealth and power, because you’re more likely to be listened to when you look like a member of the same tribe as the factory owner, even if your clothes aren’t as good quality. If you couldn’t afford many clothes you’d want the clothes you had to make you look like a person to be reckoned with, wouldn’t you?

I’ve noticed that richer/posher people are really good at adapting their dress codes to exclude the hoi polloi. Stuff like yellow/red cords on posh men. Boden and Jack Wills made money (past tense for the latter) by offering a chance to look upper middle class and wealthy. There’s a kind of studied dishevelment, intended to exclude poorer people who try too hard.

If you have ever read a Jilly Cooper book you will recognise references to this. So, why would you want to dress very smartly off duty if it marks you out as a parvenu (another Jilly favourite) or an upstart attempting to ape your betters but getting it wrong?

It’s different with kids’ clothes. If cheap kids’ clothes that were easy to wash and wear had been available, I bet all of our grannies would have bought them!

AIBU to wonder why this is?

Because of changing trends.

You’ve got it totally @gingersausage.

Agreed,@Iamthewombat

Be scruffy and have a posh accent and people will literally treat you like the lord of the manor.

My DH does that (not as an affectation, it's just who he is) and people end up bending over backwards for him without even thinking about it. I find it hilarious but I'm common so have to keep my mouth shut for it to work 😁

There's a pic (outing coz I already have it online) of my great-grandmother's large (poor, farming) family. It looks like all their clothes were home-made. Nowhere as smart as any pic here. Taken 1904. It was just a memento of how they truly were. Loose fitting but yes with pinnies & collars. Looks like they gathered on the verandah.

I have to add that I went to Uni with one of the poshest richest people I will probably ever meet. Family had appartments in Switzerland and Monaco, owned boats etc etc (I'd like to add it was a good but normal Uni and I am not push it rich myself) he dressed in ripped jeans, scruffy trainers and plaid shirts every day. As others have said scruffy and class/wealth do not always correlate. In my line of work, some of the scruffiest people I've met have been CEOs and the like who drive banged up old cars (well to work anyway, probably have Bentley for the weekend who knows 😆)

@Iamthewombat

The poster who commented on the photo of the striking men in the 1920s - that they dressed smartly in order to be taken seriously - had it right, I think.

That was me. That attitude hasn't entirely disappeared. For example, all male MPs have to wear a tie when in the House of Commons chamber. The only one who doesn't is Jared O'Mara because of his disability. The logic is, well, it's Parliament and you show your respect to other MPs by dressing smartly.

It wasn't just about clothes - the now obsolete custom of having 'best' rooms and 'best' crockery etc was all about recognising the importance of particular events. Some say what we do now is more 'honest' but I don't see how what they did was 'dishonest'.

Other posters will know more about the sociology than me, but wasn’t it about, for men at least, giving yourself physical substance with wool and tailoring?

They certainly wore more layers, but that's probably because they didn't have central heating etc!

It was also, I think, about adopting a similar dress code to the people with wealth and power, because you’re more likely to be listened to when you look like a member of the same tribe as the factory owner, even if your clothes aren’t as good quality.

No no no! Just as now, it would have been a big faux pas to dress like a different 'tribe' (I don't agree that people can dress just how they want - it's just that dress codes have become more complicated and flexible - then they were very simple). The dress code in that picture is of respectably-dressed working-class men and I doubt they would have countenanced dresssing like the colliery owner even if they could have afforded his clothes.

If you couldn’t afford many clothes you’d want the clothes you had to make you look like a person to be reckoned with, wouldn’t you?

Exactly.

The cord thing always makes me giggle as they are grandad/farmer clothes to me.

There was a very long and funny thread last year about how all MC children are scruffy.