To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

Fast, crappy, disposable fashion these days has a lot to answer for.

My grandfather would have left school in the mid-1920s. He retired in 1976 or 1977 and died in 2003, several weeks after Concorde's last flight. He was part of the team that designed and built Concorde, still the only supersonic aircraft ever to have entered commercial service, anywhere in the world. And he left school at 14.

That’s brilliant @XingMing, your pride in him is obvious.

I guess the point I'd like anyone reading this to get is, he had the will to take his abilities to their limit. If it meant wearing a suit, and collar and tie, that became part of his professional persona. It was what people who meant to achieve wore.

And it still does.

You can wear whatever you like OP. Top hat and fine silk gowns with corsets if that rocks your boat. Let clothes define your identity, respectability and/or superiority and reminisce of good old empire days founded on slave labour who must dress scruffy

DH has never forgotten when a colleague who dressed better was promoted ahead of him. Basically a suit got promoted over him. . .

He's always made sure to be one of the better and more professionally dressed in the office ever since - and it's never happened again!

Being scruffy puts people at a disadvantage they often do not perceive. Clothes are armour and need to be deployed. A smartly turned out individual is not so often bested by others.

Yep times have changed and thank goodness. Girls wearing pretty dresses all the time looked lovely but leggings and t shirt are more practical for playing in the park. Same for adults. Can’t imagine clambering around the woods and park with my kids dressed in a smart skirt and blouse and heels. There’s no shame in it. Even things like the brownies and guides changed their smarter looking uniform to a comfortable practical uniform more suitable for having adventures.
And we live in a society of freedom to express rather than to conform. My mum hated jeans when I was a kid and never let me wear them as they were workmen clothes. She still won’t wear jeans now. I, on the other hand, and a professional and when I’m not working will live in my jeans and a hoodie.

Comfort’s fine. I’m all for it. But it doesn’t have to equate to scruffiness

Exactly!

Totally agreed @celticprincess, but knowing when to dress to impress and when to dress for playing in the mud is quite important to where a person ends up in life.

Dare I say, it might be fairly decisive.

As @celticprincess says about the Brownies and Guides, many work uniforms have now been replaced with more practical wear. Park keepers no longer wear smart uniforms: they wear green T-shirts saying "park ranger". Also postmen and women, post office workers; I've even seen traffic wardens with baseball caps as part of their uniform.

Baseball caps 🤦‍♀️

@XingMing
It is really nice to be proud of your heritage

But it is not ok to take your own privileged heritage and draw a huge misty eyed conclusion about how times were better in the past.

We now live in one of the most liberated and multicultural societies - we have privileges past generations could only dreamed of. We (women especially) fought to make changes such as clothes we were expected to wear, and gain equality and with that came a change in how we can now choose to dress. The class system was horrible, racist, derogatory and it was not so long in the past slavery was a part of society. The world was not a safer nicer place to live, it was riddled with disease and unsanitary conditions for many parts of society

You cannot belittle all of the progress made in so many areas of life - for women, equality and people no longer needlessly dying of curable diseases that our modern society is shot to shit because people might be scruffy!

@Aquamarine1029 I agree with you.

I'm appalled by people who go to church dressed like utter scruff bags. Lack of respect.

Perhaps having pride in your appearance was more encouraged in previous generations and seen as a status symbol, to agree with a pp.

I wonder how much of this has to do with fast fashion, I've seen clothes in shops that are supposedly casual yet look like the kind of clothes you shouldn't ever leave the house in. Scruffy isn't the word and those aren't even the cheaper ones!

I have to scoff at 'decent' and 'primark' being in the same sentence. Their clothing is cheap as it's not made to last, the whole point is 'wear once,throw away' with their clothing.

Regarding the services, slouching, etc, my former officer father sprawled in his chair. My mother's photographs of the staff at Greenwich College when it was a naval training establishment show the male officers with their caps at different angles, slouching in their chairs and hands in their pockets. Not something that my rating mother could get away with. My mother was the one who taught me to polish my shoes and the tricks to get my uniform up to standard; my father had had a steward to do that since he was a teenager.

Incidentally, my mother always said of the WW2 Commandant of the WRNS (most senior female officer, either a Commodore or Rear Admiral equivalent) that "she always looked like she could do with a damned good SCRUB!".

And as far as what looks scruffy goes. That’s subjective. My mother often comments on people she says and says so and so looks scruffy or smart when I sometimes disagree. Scruffy to me is unwashed looking like you’ve stepped into clothes that are ready for rags or ready for washing, or straight from the building site. She thinks jeans and a hoody looks scruffy. I work in a school for special needs and the uniform is jeans or trousers with a logo polo shirt and a logo fleece. Definitely not smart!! Definitely practical. And easy to tell who we are if we are out and about with our children. Get the suit out for interviews and weddings and funerals, or if it’s a requirement of the job, but the rest of the time where what you like and hope you aren’t judged. I say this as someone who has also been through the rock phase, fringe phase, tartan trousers and baggy T-shirt phase and then the dress like you’re on a night out when you’re going to the local shopping mall for the day phase. The only thing I’m not a fan of is adults wearing pyjamas out in public (however my kids do after there swimming lesson on an evening when we sometimes pop to the shop on the way home 😂).

I suspect that everyone saying that casualising dress codes for comfort and practicality is okay lacks serious ambition.

I suspect that everyone saying that casualising dress codes for comfort and practicality is okay lacks serious ambition.
Nope. My clothing has nothing to do with my ambition.

Primark May be marketed as the wear once and non fashion however for those of us on a tight budget it can last some time. They sell many a smart outfit in there for work. Not everyone can afford the expense of an expensive suit each day.

Oh and I wear my jeans for church every week. Actually some of the old folk get suited up but there are also plenty old folk in their jeans too. It’s a relaxed place of worship where no one is judged. I’ve never let my kids come in their princess or super hero fancy dress but other parents do. One family near us has a little boy in shirt and tie and his brother in jeans and a hoodie.

I remember being in the Brownies then Girl Guides and we had those lovely little brown dresses with the yellow necktie then in the Guides, the blue shirts and scarves and pencil skirts,so smart and presentable. Then Jeff Banks redesigned the uniform and I cringe now at the uniform ,he basically chavved it up. Baseball caps, polo shirts, tracksuit bottoms, ugh ugh ugh.
That woulda been the early 90s so I think the whole sportswear thing that went on back then might be where the standards started to slide.
I roll eyes at people walking around in the summer in tiny tops and shorts and flip flops like they're on holiday in Marbella when it's a small town on the edge of a city.
Where's the beach?
Seriously though...!

Nope. I don’t lack ambition. I’m a professional. I’m working further towards a different professional career path.

Oh, and look at all those doctors and surgeons wearing scrubs in the hospital. Surely that must mean standards are slipping (said with sarcasm in case anyone thinks I’m being serious).

I also remember being a Brownie and a guide and wearing those shirt dresses for brownies and a very uncomfortable pencil skirt for guides with equally uncomfortable shirt. Although on camp we used to wear them to travel and for the photos and were allowed to were ordinary clothes for the activities. Definitely uniforms for church and presentations etc and the weekly meetings but trying to run about and play tag with those skirts on was not good.
I’m not a guider and think the uniforms are fab. For guides it’s less of sports wear as there is a polo shirt and hoodie but to wear with jeans or whatever bottoms you prefer. You can buy a dress or a skirt. Guiders have their polo shirts and can wear whatever is comfy on the bottom too. There is a formal uniform for those who want to wear it for church and formal occasions but I noticed that most prefer the casual uniform. Baseball caps are optional but I’d encourage them if out in the sun. There’s one for rainbows and brownies but not guides. I don’t think any of them look chavvy.

I'm still not certain (at 63) whether my background was privileged (it wasn't monied) or aspiring to do better. I think I come from reasonably intelligent forebears who were ambitious for their children to work hard and surpass previous generations. They saw educational achievement as the Holy Grail, so when I went to university, the first ever, and female, it pleased everyone.

I disagree that men are irrelevant to falling dress standards. After all, they are half the population.

Where I live, I see smartly-dressed and casually-dressed women wherever I go - work, eating out, entertainment etc. It seems to me that they have a genuine choice.

The men? Good quality jeans is the best it gets. Mostly they wear the cheapest leisurewear, probably costing $10 per item max, 110% non-biodegradable yet fit for landfill in months. Or it's overpriced branded items.

It's a free country and I can wear a suit and tie if I want, but I'd stand out like a sore thumb and I don't particularly want to. I have a couple of bespoke suits, one of which I've not worn in years. It annoys me.