To wonder why there are so many scruffy people these days

[Quirrelsotherface]

I've been looking through old photographs lately, from the 20's through to 60's probably, my grandparents era. What I absolutely couldn't get over was the amount of people who were so well dressed back then! There were group photos, photos of streets with lots of people in the background and to be honest, I couldn't really pick a scruffy looking one out of any of them. Not particularly affluent areas, just everyday public. The clothes, though, look expensive and well cut, the men in hats and the women with beautiful haircuts. Beautiful coats and shoes.

Why then, these days do we not have this pride in appearance that they had back then? Walk out now in any town and smart people are really in the minority.

AIBU to wonder why this is?

Yes it's funny to see,and compare,the difference in clothes that people wear today,and what they wore in the oldie days. I was just looking at some old photo's 1940 era, 1944 to be exact. I am on the beach at Blackpool,with my Mum, Grandmother and granddad,and an aunt and uncle,and a cousin. Granddad and uncle are wearing their best suits,and trilby hats, and heavy lace up shoes. Mum,Grandmother and Aunt,are wearing lovely dresses,with a string of pearls apiece,and nice hats and shoes, and they are all sitting in a row,on some stripey deckchairs in the hot sun. I am wearing a little dress with flowers on, some white crossbar sandals, and snow white ankle socks. and a frilly cotton sun hat. ha ha

We didn't actually dress up for these photo's, but there were promenade photographers walking up and down for some trade, The family dressed up like this, as we went by train to Blackpool from my home town,and people always dressed up to go on the train, even to the beach !

I think people would rather be comfy than restricted so getting dressed up to go out to eat or whatever is on the decline a bit. It's been like it for a while.

Weird thing to be concerned enough to post about much less be DEPRESSED about.. as one poster said. Get a grip. And feel glad you seem to have anything worse to feel depressed about..

People aren’t what they wear .. they are how they behave and treat others.

Clothes are about fashion, budgets and personal preference.. again, those things don’t equal the sum of a person’s worth.

Agree with the MNer who said everyone had to get trussed up into their best clothes for the occasions of a Photogragh Being Taken.. so of course the comparisons with “old times” are going to make us look scruffy in general.

It's hilarious how many people don't actually RTFT. How many times has it been said on here that it's not a reference to when people KNEW they'd be having their picture taken. Yes, my grandparents had studio portraits where they looked like characters from Downtown Abbey. I specifically said in the OP that I was referring to everyday people, crowd scenes, shopping streets. There WAS a difference then, in standards. Not just in clothing either, standards in how we treated each other, standards in customer service. It's all related imo but hey, let's all keep wearing our see through leggings and having a competition as to how scruffy and dirty we can be, just to reiterate to everyone how we do not give a shit. Great attitude.

The family dressed up like this, as we went by train to Blackpool from my home town,and people always dressed up to go on the train, even to the beach !
I remember when people dressed up for a plane flight. Now people seem to wear beach clothes on the way to their holiday.

I think it’s because back then there wasn’t cheap of the hanger fashion. No primary or Tesco. No massed produced cloths from sweat shops. People would only have a few outfits and often had to make things themselves. I remember my neighbour would wear a shirt and pullover at the weekend instead of shirt and tie, my aunts would always wear smart outfits, with matching gloves and shoes.
I love the look of the 30’s-50’s. Even the hair styles seems that they had more thought put into them.
Saying all this I am a total scruff bag. I love my jeans and hoody.

Quirrelsotherface it’s all relative isn’t it? You say people treated each other better but is that not just rose tinted glasses looking back on the past?

No, people did treat one another better, we were more polite, treated each other with greater respect, taught our kids manners. It really shocks me how rude some people are now. It was a lot worse in many ways, obviously but I think @Quirrelsotherface is absolutely right.

I'm old enough to remember when gentlemen wore hats to go out and no man was ever seen without a tie. And one thing I would say is, one shouldn't underestimate the capacity of black and white photography to make things look a good deal smarter than they were. I remember how scruffy some of my dad's clothes were even in those days- and they still look fine in the pictures.

Also not convinced about standards of politeness. What we tend to forget now is how socially graded these were, how you could get away with almost any amount of rudeness against someone lower than you on the social scale, let alone someone foreign or Roma. And even within the same social class, those manners could just as well be used to totally freeze somebody.

If we are talking Victorian/early 20th century times, there literally were no-go zones in London, where nobody middle class or well dressed would venture because crowds of children and teenagers- and some older people- would make it their special business to "mob a toff". The London mob was a known phenomenon.

My mother grew up in a different European country, in the 30s, and one thing she mentioned is how surprised she was when she realised that her children, in the 60s, were able to walk down the street carrying a violin case without being set on by hordes of bullies, because that just didn't happen in her day. Anyone who looked slightly different, or "uppity" was fair game.

people used to have to make more effort because the class system was more accepted a way of life back then (it's still completely in place obviously, but society no longer agrees that it should be)

You had to look somewhat smart, or people would think you were disrespectable.

And women used to HAVE to try to look attractive, have their hair done, wear girdles, because it wasn't as easy to earn their own money and have careers so they were more dependent on their looks for their marriagebility & livelihoods.

So it's changed for the better and the worse (but I personally do hate that people make no effort at all these days - and if you go to the theatre in central London you now feel overdressed if you aren't in jeans, trainers and a puffer jacket! )

Does it actually matter, and if so, why ? Do scruffy people offend you ? Do you think they should "make an effort" ? Is wearing a worn out tatty shirt and tie better than wearing a clean and ironed T-shirt and jacket ? I remember from the 1970s the numbers of clubs that enforced a dress code (usually on men) "to make it classy" - the reality was that all you got was a load of well dressed thugs.

As I have said, I’ve really enjoyed this thread but it hasn’t changed my mind - I really feel it's great that people can largely dress in a way which is comfortable and cool/warm, to their taste and pocket. One persons scruffy is another persons comfy.

Well dressed=formally dressed? Were they comfortable in their clothes I wonder - like men sat on the beach in shirt and tie. Better now I think. The only criteria for clothes for non work wear (or even work wear really) should be they are clean. What they are, how old etc should not be an issue.

OP there is a whole other flip side to this that isn’t in your family album. What if your family history is that your grandparent was one of 11 children who all grew up in an orphanage and was sent to war at 16. I don’t have the privilege to own any photographs of many of my relatives that are not horribly sad. My grandmother grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere and didn’t get much education. Any photos I own are very formal and don’t really portray this happy lovely smart life some people may well have led

Also no there wasn’t better standards. Remind me again when apartheid ended will you?

Been on the gin @PookieDo?

No thanks, I don’t like Gin
And no I haven’t had anything to drink. Just reminiscing about my Non Downton Abbey family history for a moment

Oh and horrible racism

But manners have not improved. Even though it is increasingly difficult to discern who has education or money, the general approach to everyday life has changed. Some people do not toilet train their children and leave it to the nursery to do it (probably because they have to resume work after their ML).

I was stunned when I did my PGCE at how students behaved. I was 50, and it wasn't until someone a bit older took me aside and said that in her early teaching years, there would be 10 seriously disruptive in a whole eight form entry school (so 200-250 per year), then there were 10 disrupters per year group, but that now you could expect five disruptive pupils per class, the rules don't apply to me types. And at that point, you can't expect to teach much, only do crowd control most of the time. Sorry, that comes down to early years socialisation and familial expectations. Whatever you wear. From a teacher's POV, the most fashionably dressed kids in the room are usually the ones that will be the problem.

"No blacks, no Irish, no dogs". Terribly polite, obvs.

Are you in all honesty saying that 50 years ago was a better, nicer, more civilised time to be alive? Because of people’s clothes? And the standards of clothes make you wistful to return to a time when everyone was smart

People were still living in slums in Manchester in the 60’s. And their relatives are still alive today. They don’t have photos of their relatives in Blackpool beach in their finest

I didn't think that it mattered at all - but new jobs for both of us, with requirements slightly beyond 'don't be stinky', have completely changed my opinion.

It feels good to know you look smart, clean and that you've given some thought to your appearance.

One thing I think is important to consider is that the only materials that were available to the majority of people for most of history were natural - wool, cotton, linen, etc - so clothes had 'substance', rather than being flimsy - as a result, they could withstand repairs, hot washes and pressing without melting or otherwise falling apart and they drape well, hold their shape and structure. And if they were fragile, like silk, feathers and beading, you had the money to pay somebody to take care of it for you.

Fabrics of similar quality now are still out of reach for a lot of us - and when was the last time you saw clothes with decent seam allowances, rather than joined with the barest minimum that an industrial over locker machine can achieve?

Same way, shoes and boots were leather and could be repaired repeatedly. A £10 synthetic pair from shoezone doesn't have the ability to mould in the same way and you aren't going to be able to get a cobbler to nail on a replacement sole because there's nothing for them to nail into.

No, not because of clothes. Because people had manners and treated one another with courtesy on the whole. You did know people still live in slums?

Gosh Pookie, you are determined to mine your misery thread. The vast majority of the population in the UK are vastly better off than their grandparents were. If they choose to engage with school, it's free; it wasn't free after 12 100 years ago, and a clever child would probably have made it to grammar school, not all of which were hellbent on Oxbridge. My grandfather left school at 14, but being clever and in the Midlands, went to work in the aviation sector. Having been put into the draughting office, where plans were drawn, and blueprints made, and with nightschool classes, he ended up in a top level job which you'd need three degrees to qualify for now.

I expect he wore a suit and tie every single day at work. On the beach, in the 1960s, he wore a shirt and trousers, without shoes or tie. And a sunhat, as he was bald. Stylish, err... probably not!