AIBU to not fully understand if this would fall under the UKs definition of Rape?

[Amibeingamug]

OK, it’s not really much of an AIBU but traffic etc, ya know. New account for this so as not to draw attention.

I have a friend who had started an affair. At some point during the affair she wanted out, it was only a fling that had run its course and she wanted to get back to monogamy as the "main" relationship had significantly improved.

At this point the guy she was sleeping with threatened to tell her partner if she stopped the affair (as well as threatening to ruin her and that if she didn't see him again she would regret it etc). As she’d had a previous affair she was certain that this would ruin their relationship. She went back on the understanding that it happened one time only. This repeated again and again for 4 months. She eventually blocked all contact at which point the guy contacted her partner.

The way I see this there was an element of blackmail and coercion but am unsure if she was raped. She had an option to stop this contact but didn’t want to take that option as she wanted to protect herself and her partner. She said no but couldn’t continue to say no in the face of these threats.

What should she say to the Police? Just describe the events or state the crime they believe has been committed? TIA.

@SuperSara In answer to your question 'Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent' contrary to section 4 of the sexual offences act 2003

If this was the exact same scenario but the other way round - male threatened with partner being told if the affair didn't continue, what would that be?

Well... blackmail.
Rape is defined by law as being penetrated by a penis without consent (please read the thread)
Women do not have penises, therefore cannot rape.

This thread is getting stupid now.

It’s a shame as there is some really good advice further up thread and some genuinely knowledgeable people posting here too. But it’ll get drowned by people victim blaming and posting rape myths (despite MNHQ’s update) and it’ll get deleted.

"I'd like to say that it is lesson learned but this exact scenario happened to her less than a year ago, she was already being blackmailed by the previous guy when she started seeing this one."

So she's been blackmailed twice by two different guys?
I feel so sorry for you OP.

I like how everyone is arguing about a definition rape and kind of ignore a victim of abuse🤷Except few posters.

She was blackmailed into sex. She wasn’t free to consent. She was raped.

Remove the affair element and re-read the post.
“My friend was blackmailed by a male she knew that he’d destroy her if she didn’t sleep with him”.
Rape.
I’m gobsmacked at the victim blaming here. Shameful.

“Shefliesonherownwings

Not rape as others have said. Rape is confined to the act itself, and lack of consent or belief of consent at the point of being penetrated with a penis.“

Wrong.
There was a case last year where a man was imprisoned for coercing a hungry and desperate homeless lady into sex in exchange for a sandwich.
Your comment isn’t just wrong it’s dangerous.

But she did consent.

Toastedstrudel

She was coerced and blackmailed.

Not rape but possibly blackmail, coercive control. Though I doubt the police will really have much time for a woman who kept sleeping with her lover to stop her husband finding out about the affair. She'll be at the centre of the police's jokes for the day

I like how everyone is arguing about a definition rape and kind of ignore a victim of abuse

Perhaps people actually read the OP and wanted to answer the actual question that was asked.

I’m gobsmacked at the victim blaming here. Shameful

I agree with this. It has a dangerous undertone I’d suggesting she actually deserved it.

She'll be at the centre of the police's jokes for the day

What an utterly disgusting thing to say.

As I said above OP this is absolutely rape. The consent given is not true consent and doesn't meet the definition of consent as laid out in the sexual offence act (s.74) and Blackmail is a theft act offence and thus requires the loss or gain to be in relation to 'property' which sex is not and control and coersion is not appropriate due to the fact it isn't all encompasing (apologies I cant quote the act on that one)

HOWEVER all that aside. The above reply's demonstrate the issue that police and CPS will have prosecuting the offence, you have a large proportion of the population feeling the same way as some of the above posters that because your poor wife is less than perfect she deserved it and you only have the length of a trial to change these beliefs.

Do go to the police! Do report it! But please please be prepared that the investigation may not result in conviction

That’s a really good point Castles
So because a jury of peers will probably, on average, have the same small-minded views as some of the idiots people who have posted here, they probably wouldn’t find the defendant guilty?

OP, I don’t think MN is the best place to ask legal advice. There are some knowledgable and helpful posters who actually know what they are talking about but it’s hard to know who they are.
I’m sorry for what your wife has gone through and I hope the police are understanding. I really think they will be.
I think you are g amazing to stand by her while she starts the process however I think you need to wait a while before making any decisions about the future.

However unconditional your love is for your wife it’s clearly a relationship that doesn’t work at the moment and definitely won’t work long term. I really hope you don’t have kids and don’t wont kids in the future. It would be stupid and irresponsible to have kids with her. It’s one thing for you to sacrifice your own security and happiness but it’s questionable to chose to have kids with someone who is behaving like she has. Obviously if you already have kids then that’s another matter.

Having two affairs with what sounds like ‘bunny boiler’ men within a year suggests there is something wrong with your wife. You staying married to her isn’t going to change that however much you love her.

At the very least I think you should consider therapy. Realistically you should be planning to leave her.

This happened to a friend of mine. The bloke then did the same with another colleague. He must spend his time blackmailing women he'd had affairs with.. How bloody revolting.

@Ethelfleda unfortunately that is the society we live in. Sexual offences are notoriously difficult to prosecute due to the juries you come up against, they have got to find the suspect guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If in a persons mind she deserves it they are not then going to say oh but the word of the law says this was rape so he must be guilty at deliberation.

The supporting evidence has to be really strong, one word against another is unlikely to cut it but one word against another supported by text messages and other things might be enough.

She did have a choice, she could have told him to get lost. She could have gone to the police. She didn't do those things because she was trying to cover up her shitty behaviour.

It comes down to what consent means in this context - best to ask a criminal law solicitor.

There have been some interesting cases on this kind of thing - eg if you consent to sex with a condom that does not mean you consent to sex without one. If you consent to vaginal sex that does not mean you consent to anal sex. If you consent to sex earlier in the evening but say no later as you don't want it a second time that is not consent. If someone has unprotected sex with you who knows he has the HIV virus but does not tell you he will commit a crime - some kind of personal injury.

Then you get to much more difficult situations - you thought you were having sex in the dark as part of a sex game with your new man and find out later it was a woman with a strapped on fake penis - that has been held to be sexual assault - www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/15/woman-convicted-of-impersonating-man-to-dupe-friend-into-having-sex

If you consented to sex because you thought the man was very rich and might marry you or because you thought he was fertile and you wanted a baby or thought he was not as he lied and said he had had the snip I don't think those kind of laws mean the sex itself was not consensual - instead you have been misled and any kind of legal action would be more in the realms of misrepresentation unless you got pregnant having been assured he could not have children and he lied - .... anyway all very interesting stuff and difficult in practice with these more complex cases.

If in a persons mind she deserves it they are not then going to say oh but the word of the law says this was rape so he must be guilty at deliberation

And then follows that such low conviction rates mean there is less deterrent for men commit crimes of this nature and the whole ugly cycle begins again.

It’s not rape and calling it that is very disrespectful and frankly sickening because it belittles real rape - you know, when the person says no and is forced to have sex?

It’s blackmail but she was only trying to protect herself - what does she want out of this/report to the police?

you know, when the person says no and is forced to have sex?

For the love of god read the bloody thread!! Or at least the link that MNHQ have put up to dispel rape myths like this one! What you have written here is NOT the legal definition of rape. Educate yourself!!

jesuschrist
In fact, if you’re too lazy to look back through the thread here is a link just for you

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/we-believe-you-campaign-rape-myths-busted

jesuschristwtf

So sex trafficking victims, for example, aren’t victims unless they shout ‘NOOOOO’ every time?

@jesuschristwtf It is rape, read the legislation specifically s1 of the sexual offence act 2003 (rape) and s74 definition of consent as used by the act. You may also wish to look at s.75 scenario under which consent is presumed to be absent (but a defense maybe raised) and s.76 consent is definitely absent.

S. 75 and 76 are not exhaustive but what none of these requires is a virginal and morally perfect women to be dragged up a dark ally, forcibly penetrated until she bleeds while shouting NO.

THIS is why prosecution of sexual offences in the UK is so difficult! You may not approve of the OP's wife and her behavior, you may not believe what she says happened, but the facts as presented as far as the letter of the law is concerned constitutes an offence of rape

@jesuschristwtf the question was essentially are these facts as I present them rape and the answer emphatically is YES.

Not do you believe her - because quite frankly unless you are in possession of all the facts that is really not something you should have an opinion on unless, of course you want to feed back into the incredibly damaging culture which keeps victims silent and rapists raping?