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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

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Original poster

AIBU to not fully understand if this would fall under the UKs definition of Rape?

82 replies

Amibeingamug · 02/09/2019 12:16

OK, it’s not really much of an AIBU but traffic etc, ya know. New account for this so as not to draw attention.

I have a friend who had started an affair. At some point during the affair she wanted out, it was only a fling that had run its course and she wanted to get back to monogamy as the "main" relationship had significantly improved.

At this point the guy she was sleeping with threatened to tell her partner if she stopped the affair (as well as threatening to ruin her and that if she didn't see him again she would regret it etc). As she’d had a previous affair she was certain that this would ruin their relationship. She went back on the understanding that it happened one time only. This repeated again and again for 4 months. She eventually blocked all contact at which point the guy contacted her partner.

The way I see this there was an element of blackmail and coercion but am unsure if she was raped. She had an option to stop this contact but didn’t want to take that option as she wanted to protect herself and her partner. She said no but couldn’t continue to say no in the face of these threats.

What should she say to the Police? Just describe the events or state the crime they believe has been committed? TIA.

OP posts:

M3lon · 02/09/2019 14:11

I think this whole thread needs to be pulled due to the rape myths on it.

You don't have to be hurt for it to be rape. You don't have to be threatened with violence for it to be rape.

IAmALazyArse · 02/09/2019 14:17

@Amibeingamug you need to talk to someone properly about your relationship. She is cheating on you, abuses you and gaslights you.
Please find help. You are worth more

siring1 · 02/09/2019 14:39

Good luck.

I hope things work out for you.

Raphael34 · 02/09/2019 15:31

I’m sorry you’re going through this op, Hopefully you’ll find the strength to leave her one day. You deserve more,
Regarding the police complaint, is this your or her idea? Does she have any proof, text messages etc of the blackmail? The police are going to look at this from every angle. If she has no proof it’s her word against his. He could argue she’s just crying rape because her husband found out

Shefliesonherownwings · 02/09/2019 15:33

@M3lon it's not rape myths. Rape has a specific statutory definition under the Sexual Offences Act and refers to penetration with a penis without consent. To be charged and convicted of rape, that definition must be met and then proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Sexual assault, blackmail, coercive control all have their own wider definitions which is why people are right to say this doesn't sound like rape. Violence is not part of the definition of rape. Ultimately it's for the police and CPS to determine if a charge of rape should be laid in accordance with the statutory requirements.

Watchingthyme · 02/09/2019 15:36

Oh OP
I’m so sorry. This is an awful situation for you. Whilst she deserves to be able to have justice for the actions of this man.
You really need to think about why you want to stay with someone who is so awful to you.
I would strongly advise counselling for yourself. Maybe try and get some sense of your own self worth

M3lon · 02/09/2019 15:39

So you think you can consent to sex while being blackmailed into sex?

I don't think you can.

Either way it was the assertions that it wasn't rape because she wasn't hurt and wasn't threatened with violence that I was objecting to as rape myths.

Also the idea she deserved to be raped or blackmailed because she had cheated is a myth.

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 02/09/2019 15:40

Hello everyone. We've had a few reports about this thread to say it's perpetuating rape myths. We think the discussion is an important one, and helpful to the OP, but if anyone gets a moment, do take a look at our We Believe You campaign, which aims to challenge rape myths.

@Amibeingamug if you're specifically after legal advice rather than opinions, we can move this thread over to Legal Matters. Just drop us a line at [email protected]

M3lon · 02/09/2019 15:44

Well I hope you will take out the actual rape myth posts then MNHQ?

Like the one about 'crying rape' and the one saying it isn't rape because she wasn't hurt?

M3lon · 02/09/2019 15:46

Or just all of Raphael34 posts for good measure....

CastlesBlown · 02/09/2019 16:05

Actually, under the Sexual offences act 2003 this IS rape.

Rape is (simplified) Penetration without consent.

Sections 74-76 of the sexual offences act define consent. It's section 74 that is relevant here. Consent is that the individual agree's by choice, that they have the freedom to choice and that they have made a reasoned and informed decision. When someone threatens you 'have sex with me or I'll do this' That is NOT giving them a choice, therefor not true consent therefor rape.

CastlesBlown · 02/09/2019 16:09

Conversely 'have sex with me or I'll do this' is not blackmail as defined by s21 Theft act 1968. The demand with menace is to make a gain for them self or another or a loss to the victim. Under the law sex is not viewed as a gain or loss

CastlesBlown · 02/09/2019 16:28

And reading through this thread - sexual assault falls under the sexual offences 2003 act and uses the same definition of consent as outlined above and coercive and controlling behavior is a very broadly written piece of legislation but on CPS charging boils down to the behavior resulting in the victim having to massively change and restrict her behavior in multiple areas, I doubt this would meet the charging standard

Original poster

Amibeingamug · 02/09/2019 16:30

Thanks again for the extra replies and now that I outed myself for your words of comfort and compassion. Thanks to MNHQ, I'm happy with the opinions offered here, specific legal advice isn't so important as she knows what she is going to do now.

Regarding the police complaint, is this your or her idea?
100% her idea. I am supporting her the best I can but it's obviously difficult for me to discuss in detail. Seeing her hurt but also hurting at the same time is very tough. It's not my decision to make though, if she wanted to let it all go I would 100% support that too. She has already reported him to HR (senior colleague who got my phone number from work records), the Police report is now happening tomorrow.

And just to reiterate, I know my worth to myself and to my partner. I know that I deserve a lot better. I love her and that love is unconditional. Thanks again everyone, that's work done for the day so back home to see how her days gone :)

OP posts:

ethelfleda · 02/09/2019 16:44

OP - just wanted to say you sound like a nice person and I am sorry you’re in this situation.
I’m also sorry for your partner because, as much as she isn’t 100% innocent, she is still the victim of a crime (rape or blackmail or whatever else - I’m no expert on the law!)

I just wanted to make the point that you don’t have to be completely virtuous to be a victim of a crime.

MorganKitten · 02/09/2019 17:22

I'd like to say that it is lesson learned but this exact scenario happened to her less than a year ago, she was already being blackmailed by the previous guy when she started seeing this one.

You also mention her gaslighting you, are you sure she was blackmailed both times or is it part of her abuse?
Even so she’s cheated twice, if it was the other way around she’d have left and be going for a pricey settlement.

EileenAlanna · 02/09/2019 17:33

She's a serial cheater, the bed's not cold from one before she has another in it. And both these men "blackmail" her into having sex? Both ?? Really??? How many others have there been apart from these two? Did they all "blackmail" her too?
Yes, you are being a mug, and she's an affront to all actual victims of rape & sexual abuse. Shame on her.

WhyBirdStop · 02/09/2019 17:44

All emotional responses aside, yes this can constitute rape, the CPS may choose to pursue coercive control and blackmail depending on the available evidence. For comparison I once worked with a woman (a client not a colleague) , who was persuaded to engage in some unusual sex acts, group sex and swinging by a partner, who recognised her vulnerabilities and was a master manipulator and love bomber. He pushed it further and further until she said no more and refused a particular scenario, the nice guy act dropped and he began threatening her and blackmailing her. He would tell her family, friends, work etc what she'd been doing, he had photos and video to prove some of the sexual behaviour. She continued the relationship for over a year and engaged in increasingly dangerous acts at his command, for dear of the impact to her family in particular but also afraid that she would lose her job and thereafter her home etc. It only came to a head when she tried to commit suicide. He was convicted of rape amongst other charges.

Ilikethisone · 02/09/2019 17:48

She was blackmailed into having sex with 2 affair partners?

ethelfleda · 02/09/2019 17:54

Ok so basically, you’re saying you don’t believe her and even if you did, it’s her own fault anyway... right?

And what exactly is your opinion of the man who was threatening her? Let’s pretend it’s true for a moment...

mrswx · 02/09/2019 18:20

If his was a woman talking about her husband having a second affair - both times with him trying really hard to end it, being blackmailed about it so continuing for 4 months, so he didn't hurt his wife. What would yous all say? That he was sexually assaulted?

TeaForDad · 02/09/2019 18:36

OP, please leave her if you want to keep a crumb of self respect.

Who knows the truth of it all but she started both affairs freely so you should leave, don't let her need for support keep you with her.

Fraggling · 02/09/2019 18:42

She doesn't need to decide what crime it is, if she tells the police then they will decide if a crime has been committed.

MoominKitty · 02/09/2019 19:39

What the other man did is wrong, blackmail is never right at all. However she did go back to him so unsure if it would be classed as rape, but I haven't seen the messages so it really depends on what they were like etc. I had a friend like your wife and she never stopped her cheating to the devastation of her poor husband and I broke contact with her as I found her disgusting to do it over and over to him as I had a ex you did it to me too. I know you love her and love makes you do weird things and I totally get why you want to stay. But you are worth someone who will love you just as much as you love them. If you want it to work that's your choice but please try couples therapy and therapy for just you too to try to build bridges and your confidence. I wish you all the luck OP and truly hope this works out for you in the long run X

SuperSara · 02/09/2019 20:14

Of course it's not rape.

If this was the exact same scenario but the other way round - male threatened with partner being told if the affair didn't continue, what would that be?

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