To think most parents don't know that rearfacing DCs is safer?

[mumaw]

I'm in Facebook groups that specialise in advice for mainly extended rear facing car seats. It's proven that rear facing your child is much, much safer (in fact 500% safer) than front facing.

But I never see anybody RF'ing their child and don't know anybody that does either.

Is it just a case of parents not knowing that its safer?

I'm another one that knows its safer but has chosen to FF anyway. It's one of those things you weigh up against other factors and make the decision that's right for you - rather than relying solely on statistics. DS hated RF and screamed blue murder - the stress made driving hellish and downright dangerous on more than one occasion. Then as he got older he started getting car-sick and that terrified me. I also barely drive with DS other than the 2 min journey to nursery and honestly didn't wish to pay £300 for a suitable RF seat that actually fit in my small car. DH got the more expesive ERF seat in his car as we use his for longer journeys but even that seat is now FF too. DS is 3 now.

I had one friend who wouldn’t buy a RF because she said they are too expensive but at the same time was pushing her baby around in a fancy pram/pushchair system that cost about three times the price of a RF seat.

Her choice obviously but I never really understood it.

queen that is so sad. We do need to realise that this isn't just statistics, its real lives.

@Bonjourfreddie any “judgement” you perceive is in your own head.

I said it wasn’t something I could give in to, but appreciated that everyone was different. If you feel like your child was literally traumatised by being RF then that’s your call. Mine wasn’t, he was upset and we worked on that until he wasn’t. So don’t assume our circumstances were the same - I absolutely did NOT choose safety over compassion, you have wrongly extrapolated from my comment.

The only reason I’m looking down on you is because you’re making personal digs and telling me that I’m not compassionate enough to my son. That’s unacceptable and incorrect.

@mumaw - but DD1 was the size of a 4 year old when she was 2. Her legs were already bent out sideways and she hated being in her car seat and she cried. She looked so uncomfortable. So we turned her round. Not much else I feel we could have done but shoehorn her in screaming every time.

The Joie rear-facing seats are very good value and affordable for most people.

People get so defensive about this topic.

I agree with PP who said we need clearer laws on this (they are changing very gradually) and I also think there should be some kind of regulation of terrible "advice" and even wrongly fitted seats by the likes of Halfords and Mothercare.

I think it's a mix of (1) A lot of kids hate rear facing and scream which is a huge distraction especially on long journeys and (2) the adjusted risk differential based on how likely you are to be in an RTA.

The user experience is important, whatever people say, and people are saying the trade off isn't worth it.

......that is so sad. We do need to realise that this isn't just statistics, its real lives.

He was in intensive care for about 36 hours but then the decision was made to withdraw treatment and turn off the ventilator. It was just awful.

Both of his parents who were in the car escaped with just whiplash and bruising.

Like you say - this is real life, not just data

I forward face because DD screams to the point of making herself sick when she's in a car seat. We don't have her being upset anywhere near as much now. I get that not being hurt in an accident is more important than her being upset but we literally couldn't go in the car while she was RF.

Everyone is plenty aware, people choose what is right for them.

@StepAwayFromGoogle Did you have an extended rear facing 25kg seat? They're usually a lot larger than the 18kg ones

Sadly, @QueenofmyPrinces' sad example is the reason for RF being safer.

It is really quite simple. In a collision, a baby/child can be internally decapitated. The weight of a baby / toddlers head in comparison to its neck simply means that when thrown forward at force, the brain stem / spinal cord can become detached. This will either be fatal or result in life changing injuries. When rear-facing, the child is simply pushed backwards into the seat.

It is the same premise for adults, the effects are simply more catastrophic in children due to the weight distribution of their bodies.

You don't need to be in a collision to see the effect of this. I have been in numerous cars with forward facing children and I can see the strain on their necks simply at heavy braking, so it is easy to see what would happen in a collision.

The difficulty is that people think "legal" equals "safe", and it doesn't. But I believe this will change in the coming years.

The rear facing becoming a common thing didn’t happen until one child had already been through a whole bunch of forward facing seats, I couldn’t afford to buy new for the second. So not lack of knowledge but connivence and a risk assessment.
rear is safer but doesn’t mean forward is unsafe

They really will make a Facebook group for anything these days though won't they..

impatience you specifically said you wouldn't give in to it, after id made my comment. So you were saying that basically I shouldn't have given in to it and if safety means terrified screaming then tough shit essentially. You replied to my comment about how my child reacted saying you wouldn't give in to that, not about your own child. If that's what you meant you should have made it more clear.

if you wouldn't "give in" to a child who was acting the way mine was, I would think you not very compassionate to be honest.

sorry but its not in my head, your language made your judgement pretty clear.

I spent a lot on my first child’s 2 car seats (cybex) so the second will use them- they go forward facing at 18m. I will always comply with the law though should that (or has it?) change

@yourestandingonmyneck I really hope that rearfacing does become the law

We just bought the Axxkid Minikid for DD 4.5 which RF up to 25kg.
I think people mainly do know but they just assess things differently eg my DN 2.5 is FF but mum is more risk averse in others ways where i am perhaps reckless. Also most people FF so people think that if most people do it it’s probably fine. A lot of people think “it would be illegal if it wasn’t safe” or “they wouldn’t sell X if it was dangerous”
I’m pretty sure you can legally front face at 9m because one mum I know did IN THE FRONT PASSENGER SEAT and I will admit I was shocked especially as she bragged about how advanced the child was. The front passenger seat is known as the suicide seat for a reason.

Not being in a car crash in the first place is the thing that most protected my children from being injured in a car crash.

That in turn was mostly dictated by my attention to the road and any approaching risk points.

I'd rather have my children front facing chatting away happily not vomiting or squabbling or moaning about legs than rear facing while being a distraction to me.

Anyway, what the blazes are you doing putting your baby in a car at all if you are so disturbed by such marginal risks? Remember your biggest risk is being in the car at all! Get the bus or the train or walk to be safer.

Ok @Bonjourfreddie, obviously you know better than me what I meant. If you really want to be offended by my comment, then go ahead.

For the record, I was NOT responding to you (I’d have @ you, like I have in every other comment where I was actually addressing you), I was adding to my own comment and your post popped up between.

How long do babies legally have to be in a rear facing seat for?

impatience there was literally no way for me to know that was there?

Christ.

When my 8 yo was a baby, ERF was a niche, expensive, pretty much online only product. I had a 0+ seat which DS1 stayed in until he began screaming constantly through every journey. DS2 lasted until 15m. It helped that he had a squarer build and with DS1 being long and lean, weight guides are irrelevant to his body. He's still under 25kg, so could hypothetically ERF... not very safe if your knees hang out through the car window though I contorted him into his stage 1 seat as long as I could because his body was too long for it and head getting too high, but he was still technically too light for a HBB.

Cultures take a while to trickle down. Legal changes have helped, but there are still people out there who don't even use car seats or use them poorly. That's a worthier social battle than getting het up over the virtues of very safe car seats over very, very safe car seats where the risk of serious injury/ death is incredibly low. As the example of the eye injury, sometimes it's not a simple choice without consequence. The consequences of an individual accident will have so many variables, it's not often that the ERF seat will have superior protection to a well fitted and properly used FF seat. It does happen, but there are so many other practical circumstances to consider like getting it in the car and child being content.

I knew one baby who screamed through every car journey to the extent where he would regularly stop breathing. He was turned to FF at 6 months when he was big enough to meet the minimum weight and was instantly happier. Driving to constant screaming is not safe. Regularly pulling up randomly to check your baby is still alive is not safe. In that case, baby was safer for being turned unusually early and he still remains a very car sick child.

I think BFing got mentioned due to the subset of very idealistic BFers who are very staunchly ERF, baby wearing (and shudder at the words Baby Bjorn), cloth bumming and baby led weaning etc. I say this as someone who did a lot of these because they happened to work for me, but there was a significant number on fb groups who were very pious about these optimal lifestyles and judgemental about those who did it "wrong". It's the absolute attitude that gets people's backs up regardless of topic, but people especially don't like insinuations that they are failing their children when they are doing their best.

I knew precisely one other family that chose ERF when my DC's were small. I didn't understand it either. Just watching the crash test videos completely convinced me. And I had two Houdini's but rear facing wasn't the issue there.
The law is slowly catching up with our Scandinavian counterparts and ERF will eventually be enforced legally. With good reason.

I thought that too @PleaseGoogleIt but the car seat safety groups really are invaluable tools for education and help regarding rear facing. Most of the posts are looking for seat recommendations for specific vehicles (as not all seats fit all cars) or looking for advice regarding seat position and if the child is securely harnessed. It's been useful for me anyway :)

@yomommasmomma 15 months for the new iSize seats. To 9kg for other weight-based seats.