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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think SIL is taking advantage of us?

91 replies

wetelectricblanket · 31/08/2019 18:25

Long-time lurker (5+ years ) and this is the first time I've been compelled to post as I have had it with SIL.
For a bit of background, DH has one sister who is a single mother of two children,his father has been dead for over 20 years so both SIL and MIL really rely on DH. When I first met DH he was giving his mother almost a third of his salary and he wasn't living with her. He took a step back from them when we got married which I was glad of.
So two years ago SIL was diagnosed with early-stage breast cancer she needed surgery and a course of chemo afterwards. Obviously this was terrible and DH and I tried to be supportive as possible. When SIL had surgery we had her children for two weeks while she recovered and even after that we often had them at weekends/brought them on holidays with us to give her a break.
When SIL started having treament she said she has no childcare even though MIL normally looks after the kids mid-week but she was suddenly occupied. So we agreed that our nanny would collect the kids and feed them do homework etc and we dropped them home later. I also accompanied SIL to treatment several times taking time off work to do so.
The problem is over a year ago SIL was given the all-clear. But she still continuously asks us to mind her kids overnight/for weekends. I have begun making up excuses as I feel shes using us as free childcare while she goes shopping goes out to lunch etc as she does not work.
What has prompted all this is last week SIL approached us asking if she could borrow money for Christmas as she says she cannot afford to treat her kids. I pointed out it was August and she just broke down saying it's not fair she cant give her kids what we give hours.DH and I have agreed not to give her the money as we feel she will continue to ask.
So AIBU to put a stop to supporting SIL and how would you talk her about this?

OP posts:
Ellisandra · 31/08/2019 22:14

@AmIRightOrAMeringue the OP has given the children’s ages.

TheKarateKitty · 31/08/2019 22:29

You and your DH seem like generous and caring people. You went above and beyond yourselves helping SIL.
Absolutely, you're right that she needs to provide a way for herself and kids/save up/stop using her former sickness as a crutch.

Good that she’s in the clear, of course.

Give one a fish or show them how to fish. Yep, she needs to learn how to fish.

Clutterbugsmum · 31/08/2019 22:38

YANBU

The more you give, the more she will ask/take.

She can work, she just choosing not too. Because other people will give her what she wants.

I have a cousin who has had breast cancer 4 times and is now having experimental as all other treatment is now not working. She has it on her liver and lungs as well the breast cancer but she still works 4 long days and has more of a social life then any other person I know. She always out and about living life.

Rachelover40 · 31/08/2019 22:39

You haven't said anything boastful, Raspberry. You and your husband come over as very caring.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 31/08/2019 22:46

I think you're wise to recognise the precedent which giving her money for Christmas would create, and wise again to suggest helping her by signposting support. Don't be surprised if she refuses the second one though; she'll probably claim you're patronising her or "rubbing her nose in it" or something ... anything, in fact, to avoid the real truth that she'd rather things just carry on as they are

Of course you don't need to do that, especially when you've already been so generous, so it looks like it's "get her told time". Good luck with it all ...

LillithsFamiliar · 01/09/2019 00:47

I think she isn't going to change so your advice and pointers will be wasted. If she wanted help with budgeting, that's what she would have asked for. She didn't. She asked for a loan.
Everything else is you trying to justify your decision not to give her money. You don't need to justify it. She's going to feel aggrieved that you're not giving her the money whether you surround that decision with tips on job hunting or not.
I also think MNers' opinions on her fitness for work are irrelevant. They have no idea.
I have siblings. Sometimes I will give them money, let them borrow money, not give them money or give them advice if they ask for it.
But I'm clear-sighted enough to know that giving advice to someone who has made it clear they don't want it, is a waste of time. And, yy, often I'll look at my nieces and nephews and make the decision that benefits them taking into account who their parents are, not who I'd want them to be.

perfectstorm · 01/09/2019 01:15

It isn't that early stage if she had chemotherapy. Early stage clinically just means that it hasn't spread, so is still curable. It hasn't metastasised beyond the breast and lymph nodes in the arm. It doesn't mean that it was a teensy weensy lump and no big deal, because they don't hand chemo out like candy, and if the cancer is small, not aggressive, and unlikely to spread then they just treat it with surgery and radiotherapy. Chemo for breast cancer has huge risks in terms of other diseases, and your immune response while in treatment. You have a one in two thousand chance of it triggering incurable and aggressive leukaemia, and that's one of the least likely problems. You cannot have chemo, and a cancer not seen as that much of a problem. They only give it if the risks justify that.

Interestingly, women on the younger breast cancer forums often comment that people are fantastic when they're in treatment, but when it's done expect them to be back to normal. When that's often just not on the cards. Surgery is traumatic, cancer itself is traumatic, and chemo is a blitz on absolutely everything about you. It's the scorched earth of medical treatments.

Chemo can affect people for life. I went through it this year for breast cancer, and my key nurse told me, when I was asking when I'd feel better, that the really chronic fatigue should hopefully start to lift by Christmas, but that I would in all likelihood only ever regain about 80% of my pre-chemo energies. I know women who still have to work part time, five or six years after completing treatment, and who spend their days off in bed, resting. I finished chemo in April and radiotherapy (also draining) in late May, and I can still struggle to walk more than a hundred metres. I have to sit down in between. And I was fit as a fiddle before. Chemo is a sort of tiredness that's impossible to explain. Resting doesn't solve it. Nothing but time does, really. And two years isn't, apparently, enough for many, many people.

Of course, it affects everyone differently and some people do sail through it. I was unlucky and one of those people where dormant Epstein Barr is reactivated (glandular fever) during treatment, which dies not help, to put it mildly. So she may be taking the piss, yes. But she may not. She may legitimately suffer from constant exhaustion.

She has absolutely no right to your money and I sympathise with you on that front. None of this is your responsibility, actually, and she owes you gratitude for stepping up in her time of need. But I'm also lucky in having support from family and friends, and a husband with a really good job. I can't imagine what it must have been like, and will still be like, as a single parent. The terror of leaving your children must be so amplified, and the financial struggle, plus lack of any real time to just relax and not have to think or plan must be difficult. Asking for money for Christmas is obnoxious, but I can't blame her for wanting help with the kids. Having said that, where is their father? Why isn't he caring for his own children, and why isn't she claiming child support from him? Why is her brother, and her SIL, picking up that slack?

If you've ever had cancer, you are classed as disabled for life. Because the treatments are, while lifesaving, hugely debilitating.

Again, I'm not saying it's the OP's responsibility, any of this. It isn't. But at the same time, it's not the case that SIL had cancer two years ago, so now she's clearly fine. She may never be truly fine, in terms of normal energy levels, again. And honestly, given how many of us will get cancer I wish more people realised that. I know a lot of people who are recovering from treatment who get told they're just milking it. They aren't. They remain debilitated.

perfectstorm · 01/09/2019 01:20

Sorry OP, only showed first page when I was posting. I note you did say about her ex. So he does pay child support, and she owns a property?

I agree that talking through how she can return to work part time, and if not what can be done to recover her health, is sensible. Personally I know that I need to get a gentle programme of exercise, a little every day, or I'll stay an invalid, and I'm arranging to start that after my final surgeries are completed in a few months. And it may be that she needs to do the same. I really do feel for her, but the Lord helps those who help themselves.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 01/09/2019 01:53

Her own mother was "suddenly occupied" and unable to help with her DC so it has fallen onto you, your DH and your Nanny .

Will your MIL pick up the reins if your SIL does go to work / if you can no longer provide free childcare ?
Or does she think she's neatly foisted it onto you

perfectstorm · 01/09/2019 01:58

Yeah, MIL sounds a peach.

KC225 · 01/09/2019 02:02

YANBU - and you are right to be wary about the loan and the start of an avalanche. I think it's perfectly OK to say - 'I don't loan money as it always ends in awkwardness'. Has she ever watched Judge Rinder.

I agree that being out of the job market has probably dented her confidence. Is there anyway you can help her out/ know anyone with something temporary, part time. Does she have items to sell - kids clothes, old jewellery, bags etc. EBay, Gumtree, Facebook pages cand be good for making a few quid.

She need to stand on her own two feet. She has had some tough breaks - divorced with young children and cancer but I think you are right to start saying 'No' to on tap child care.

TheSerenDipitY · 01/09/2019 02:35

do not let her play the "im sick" ive had cancer " card... my mother had cancer at 42, stage 4 breast cancer, the lump was the size of an egg, she tried for 2 years to be taken seriously and her doctor at the time said she was just trying to get benefits, when she finely got to see a different doctor, she walked in he said what can i do for you, she opened her top and he said SHIT" her breast was removed ONE week later and she started "red death/ 6 foot under" chemo and was given a maybe 2 months without or maybe a year with treatment, so pretty shit really... did she lay down and think fuck it? no she got off her ass and fought, she didnt give up, she has her LIFETIME maximum of chemo and radio, so if she gets more cancers ( other than the lymphoma and colima (sp) cell cancer she also had) she is fucked... that was 20 years ago... she worked the entire time thru treatment, only taking chemo week off, and we all , including her boss, pushed her to keep moving and not to think of having a pity party, we pushed and pulled when needed and she got thru it... if she wanted to get passed this she has to quit thinking "im sick" she needs to get off her ass and move... and you need to push her to do so... or she will be like the lady in her cancer group with the tiny melanoma, just a spec, that said over and over im going to die until she talked her self into it..... dont pander to her

wonderwhat · 01/09/2019 05:59

A good friend of mine had breast cancer. Single mum. She worked as much as she could through treatment and back to work as soon as she could. No local family support. Your sil has been lucky to have you there and now she’s making you feel bad because your kids get more for xmas? How dare she and also where is her brain? She’s really thinking about crap like that after going through cancer treatment? Hasn’t it given her a wake up call that there’s more to life than petty crap like that!!! Tell her she needs to stop being so ridiculous and give her head a damn wobble.

QuiteForgetful · 01/09/2019 06:32

Yanbu. A hand up is much better than a handout. She can clean a house one day a week, babysit a kid, walk a dog... and buy presents with that money. You mentioned she goes out for lunch, that is not how a person saves money.

BoomBoomsCousin · 01/09/2019 06:38

A good friend of mine had breast cancer. Single mum. She worked as much as she could through treatment and back to work as soon as she could.

Anecdotes are fine, but they don't show either the breadth of the situation or the reality of what another individual is dealing with.

In contrast, my aunt had breast cancer, worked as much as she could through treatment. Went back full time after being given the all clear and was dead 18 months later. Her work didn't cause her death. Cancer doesn't really care in most cases. But she was exhausted that whole time pushing herself to do all she could and at the end she regretted not making the most of the last few years. Of course, if she hadn't succumbed she might well have regretted not pushing herself for 3 years and letting her career die. Like I said anecdotes don't provide you with clear direction on what to do. If you collect enough of them you might get data that shows you most likely outcomes, but you're still just rolling dice to apply that to a single, individual situation.

Jollymollyx · 01/09/2019 06:48

I’ve seen this a lot where a mil may think her son can compensate for a lack of husband, when they should let them live their lives for their own children. In regards to your sil I have also seen experiences of when they think their brother is comfortable to not appreciate anything and take more more more. You must work hard for what you have and your motivation is your children.

You have been so generous and god forbid if something happened to one of you I doubt she could help out much. So save your own money for yourselves, stick to presents which to be honest £30-50 is enough and spend the quality time with your children, they grow up so fast.

Of course you can help her out with having her kids here and there I’m sure your kids would also like to see them but you can’t in place of what your mil should be doing, you aren’t the grandparent here- you helped when she really needed it now she should ask her ex partner who she gets money from or her mother.

Surfskatefamily · 01/09/2019 06:56

I don't know how it would go down. But iv been doing surveys with life points and nicequest online. The life point one pays out amazon vouchers and the nice quest one you pick gifts.
Maybe suggest she does something like that?

AlwaysCheddar · 01/09/2019 07:32

Stop giving sil and mil money!!

Vulpine · 01/09/2019 08:54

'If you've ever had cancer you are classed as disabled for life'?! This is clearly not true

serenoa · 01/09/2019 09:03

Isn't she claiming benefits, OP, or is she not in the UK? I haven't seen 'benefits' mentioned here in this context.

I keep rabbiting on about this, but if someone isn't working and not claiming any working age benefits they're entitled to, they may not have enough NI contributions or credits to entitle them to a state pension, or receive a smaller pension than they would have done if they'd claimed when they were able to.

I certainly wouldn't be giving her any more money until her benefits status is clear. If she's too ill to work then she ought to qualify for PIP at some level, and get those NI credits as well.

serenoa · 01/09/2019 09:10

'If you've ever had cancer you are classed as disabled for life'?! This is clearly not true

No, it's not true. It's if you have a diagnosis of terminal cancer and cannot work you will receive an indeterminate (lifetime) award.

Actually I'm not sure whether the wording definitely refers to cancer or is 'terminal illness, e.g. cancer' or similar. More caffeine needed, sorry. You know what I mean.

wetelectricblanket · 01/09/2019 11:04

Just to clear something up I am actually a doctor not an oncologist but still know a bit.Staging if cancer is complicated.In breast cancer prophylactic chemo I'd becoming more and more common as it dramatically reduces recurrence particularly in patients with genetic mutations which predispose them to hormone dependent cancers.Standard practice is a biopsy of the sentinel lymph node(the one closest to the cancer )if this is positive then the cancer has spread and is advanced in stage at this point lymph nodes are normally removed and chemo.But SIL was negative she was offered chemo to reduce the Risk of recurrence but it was not essential.

Now cancer related fatigue of course is real and a debilitating condition.And of course many people are left with life long effects of chemo but the fact is SIL is not ill she is young fit and healthy.

OP posts:
wetelectricblanket · 01/09/2019 14:36

I'm not sure if anyone is interested but I thought I'd give an update anyway.SIL came round this morning to borrow something for MIL so Dh and I sat her down for a chat.We said we had thought about her asking for money and decided we weren't comfortable with it and how it wasn't a solution etc.Cue floods of tears and moaning.Then SIL tried to get me to leave the room to try and convince DH but I didn't .SIL then says she'll have to get a payday loan which I advised against but said that was her decision .I asked if she considered getting a job and she mumbled about kids etc so didn't push this .Things kicked off when I said we couldn't provide childcare for her ,I said obviously kids can come over and we still want to see them but on our terms (and SIL as in a combination of both) she freaked saying she thought we would want to see Nieces and most people would love that .In the end she stormed out but am glad we have made our position clear.Thanks for all the advice

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 01/09/2019 14:43

@wetelectricblanket that does actually reassure me to be honest. So many comments here really don't seem to appreciate what early stage can actually mean - I had full mx and positive margins even so, which was a tad alarming to say the least, though it was only DCIS so hopefully rads and chemo have mopped it up.

I would say that the claim chemo is getting more and more common contradicts what I was told at the Marsden, though. They said tests such as Oncotype DX mean they can target far more effectively who is likely to benefit - presumably your SIL's results showed she was at heightened risk of recurrence? In my case they didn't bother for obvious reasons, but in her case I can only imagine the genetic histology wasn't on her side.

'If you've ever had cancer you are classed as disabled for life'?! This is clearly not true In employment terms, yes it is. Macmillan offer advice on this. It can affect you permanently, and you are therefore covered by the Equality Act automatically. It doesn't need to be active and nor does it need to be terminal. A woman I know had an automatic interview, as disabled people are entitled to, when going for a job recently, and she had active treatment end a couple of years ago now. Her main concern was whether to flag up the cancer and risk not getting the job because they might be concerned it could come back, or go for the guaranteed interview and have the opportunity to explain her career break in person, so they can see how fab she is.

I was really surprised to hear the protection is lifelong, too, but Macmillan say that it is.

@serenoa that's relating to benefits, where the effects of a condition matter, not the diagnosis. Benefits aren't paid based on whether someone is disabled or not, or plenty of disabled people wouldn't be refused. You are confusing the automatic payment of benefits to someone with a terminal diagnosis, with protection from discrimination afforded to disabled people.

I'm a member of a brilliant site on Facebook, Younger Women With Breast Cancer, who offer a lot of support. Women on there have been able to rely on the Equality Act because otherwise, many would struggle to have adjustments made in the years after chemo when they need them. I'm thinking of a teacher, for example, who had a part time role (after having to stand down from her SLT one) and the head wanted to swap her day off from midweek to start or end, to make planning easier. But this teacher needed those days to rest so she could manage the other 4, and a long weekend wouldn't cut it. She apparently had employment protection because of that classified disability, which I would hope most people here would regard as fair.

Chemo fatigue is, as OP says, a real and horrible thing. Mine was actually graded by my oncologist as Grade Two. The glandular fever obviously didn't help, but the chemo itself had effects impossible to describe. It's not normal tiredness. It's an inertia and heaviness I can't really convey. OP says her SIL didn't suffer that, and I recognise that some women sail through. But others really don't and the effects can be for years. My mum had chemo first in 2000 for example, and again in 2016 (she has a form of lymphoma, which is treatable but not permanently curable) and she's often said how glad she is that she was always someone with huge energy before, because since, she's been considerably more easily exhausted and a lower start point would have been hellish!

Cancer, as with almost all conditions, is variable, and so are the impacts. The best comparison is pregnancy and birth, in that a handful of women have no real symptoms, very easy labours, and snap back into shape. Most fall in the middle, with discomforts and stressed and their bodies being affected permanently, but manageably. And then a few have horrendous pregnancies, and/or birth injuries that leave them struggling for years afterwards. And people on here would have little time for those saying to someone with a prolapse, who needed continence underwear, that they gave birth a couple of years ago, so what's the issue now? I'm just saying that cancer is similar.

I'm very newly through it, and have more surgery and some long-term drug trials ahead. But I still feel I'm better than some women who were treated a while further back. And I know other people who finished a year ago and are doing Park Run. It just varies so much.

None of which really matters here, because OP is not obligated to look after her SIL's children, nor subsidise her lifestyle. The cancer's not relevant there. My lovely father in law paid for a nanny when I was in the immediate aftermath of surgery, because it had a six week recovery time and I had a toddler, but I was gobsmacked at his generosity and would never have expected, far less asked, for that. And the idea I should call him up and whine that he needs to keep going now... no. I have an ASD home edded child, I should add, and we're going through the EHCP process right now and the LA are largely in agreement that no school can meet his needs in this area, and they are looking at providing tutors etc. I can't fob that off of anyone else, any of it, glad as I am of family support and a husband. I'm not saying cancer renders someone useless, and nor am I saying the OP is the slightest bit anything but a lovely SIL. It's the comments on here about cancer being in the past etc that made me want to comment, because two years isn't that recent, and a tiny area of DCIS doesn't get you referred for chemo.

Sorry these posts are so rambling - another lovely effect is cognitive impairment, or 'chemo brain.' Makes organising thoughts harder.

perfectstorm · 01/09/2019 14:49

@wetelectricblanket cross post, apologies.

I don't want to sound unkind (and clearly, I do understand her situation) but I do think she sounds pretty ungrateful and a tad manipulative, from your post. I'm glad you were straight with her, because apart from anything else, letting her be a wet blanket in perpetuity doesn't help her.

She's not entitled to your money, nor your childcare as an automatic. And as someone who has benefited a lot this past year from the love, support and help of those close to me, I think she's taking advantage, too. I've been hesitant to ask for care for the kids for actual appointments, for example, because I realise goodwill needs to be appreciated and respected. She seems to lack that.

I pity her with that mum though. Mine has been wonderful, despite her own health challenges (and in some ways, because of them, as she really gets it).

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