to think SIL is taking advantage of us?

[wetelectricblanket]

Long-time lurker (5+ years ) and this is the first time I've been compelled to post as I have had it with SIL.
For a bit of background, DH has one sister who is a single mother of two children,his father has been dead for over 20 years so both SIL and MIL really rely on DH. When I first met DH he was giving his mother almost a third of his salary and he wasn't living with her. He took a step back from them when we got married which I was glad of.
So two years ago SIL was diagnosed with early-stage breast cancer she needed surgery and a course of chemo afterwards. Obviously this was terrible and DH and I tried to be supportive as possible. When SIL had surgery we had her children for two weeks while she recovered and even after that we often had them at weekends/brought them on holidays with us to give her a break.
When SIL started having treament she said she has no childcare even though MIL normally looks after the kids mid-week but she was suddenly occupied. So we agreed that our nanny would collect the kids and feed them do homework etc and we dropped them home later. I also accompanied SIL to treatment several times taking time off work to do so.
The problem is over a year ago SIL was given the all-clear. But she still continuously asks us to mind her kids overnight/for weekends. I have begun making up excuses as I feel shes using us as free childcare while she goes shopping goes out to lunch etc as she does not work.
What has prompted all this is last week SIL approached us asking if she could borrow money for Christmas as she says she cannot afford to treat her kids. I pointed out it was August and she just broke down saying it's not fair she cant give her kids what we give hours.DH and I have agreed not to give her the money as we feel she will continue to ask.
So AIBU to put a stop to supporting SIL and how would you talk her about this?

She is a cf of the highest order. If she wants to give her kids the same as yours then she needs to start by getting a job. Even then she may not be able to afford what you can and so what? Life is too short to compare yourself to others or be envious.

If you do loan the money then she will ask again for birthdays, Easter and so on. I would be firm and say no.you have supported her when she needed it most but now she needs to stand on her own two feet and sort out her own childcare. You are not responsible for her children, she is. Maybe this will give her the kick up the backside to sort herself out and find a job.

I had a very agressive form of cancer, caught early, three months once I was symptomatic, I was off work for a year, it was a physical job and I found it hard, so I changed jobs. QED

My point being I work twenty hours a week Monday to Thursday and sometimes I am glad to see Thursday, but she is a CF of the highest order, she can work, she chooses not to. IMO

Oh and meant to add, we technically don't need what I earn, but I like spending it on nice things, so I work.

She might like to have a think about that.

'Did you start this just to boast?'
l can't see the OP has boasted

RoryGlory

I doubt it.

RoryGlory did you post just to be a dick?

£100 for two DNs is plenty for xmas. That's not far off what I spent on my own children. We budget £20 each for our nieces, and don't buy presents for SIL and BIL (by mutual agreement).

You're not being unreasonable to not give her money, as everyone says, she needs to get a job, and this is the perfect time of the year to start her job hunt, as shops will be advertising for their xmas staff soon. Someone who's been out of the workforce for so long, is more likely to be able to get one of those jobs, as they're mostly temporary, although they can lead to a permanent place.

Having been out of the job market for so long she's bound to be lacking in confidence and probably has unrealistic expectations of what kind of job she should have.
It's up to you at this point. It's very sensible to say the bank of wetelectricblanket is closed. If you feel you can, some sort of support to get her into a job might be good.
That's the absolute most I'd do in your situation.

LordNibbler

So she gets new valuations for the property, sells it and gets a job. I’m finding it difficult to sympathise when she’s now healthy but refuses to work. I’d love to not work!

You don’t have to talk to her about it at all. You can just withdraw your support to whatever level you’re happy with on an ongoing basis.

If you (or, more appropriately, your DH) wanted to talk to her about it I think emphasising that you’re happy to help out with a crisis but not to simply support her regular standard of living. If your DH is concerned about how his sister will manage he could (if you’re both OK with it) offer help with her completing a training course or something that would improve her financial prospects. If she hasn’t worked since her kids were born she’s got a daunting prospect ahead of her to get back into the workforce anyway and that’s on top of coping with the sort of fatigue that cancer survivors often have even a few years after treatment is over. So that would be a kind and brotherly thing to do in line with support you provided for her when she had her health crisis but that doesn’t set you up for simply being a cash machine/unpaid child care for ever just because you are better off than she is.

Wouldn't we all love to not work and yet still have money.

She needs to either get a job or get on the case with selling the property.

When she says she's ill what is she referring to?

I agree with people who have said 50 pounds is loads for a niece but if we gave money to SIL then the presents she would buy them would be from "her" IYSWIM, but think we don't do that anyway.
some posters have made some excellent points about her lacking confidence and possibly direction to return to the workforce and that definitely support I can provide and signpost her to other services.
I think DH and I will have a firm chat with her and say we are unwilling to provide cash and regular childcare but want to see her get her life back on track.
@RoryGlory please enlighten me about what I have said that is apparently "boastful"?

I would also be cautious about being regular childcare providers should your SIL get a job. Based on how she has been unappreciative this time, it might turn into a permanent arrangement you find difficult to stop. Just be careful if you mention work to her as you might well get the childcare issues pushed back to you.

Yes OP, definitely sort the childcare thing out before she potentially goes back to work. If she thinks she can get free childcare out of you and work she'll do it. Then you'll be guilted out of stopping it later because she'll tell you that she can't afford childcare and to work at the same time and she has no other option, no support etc. You could tell her you're changing your childcare arrangements around and they will no longer be able to take her children so she'll have to arrange something elsewhere.

Yes limit it to support and usual contact

She isn't asking for advice or a judgement on her life. She's asking if she can borrow money for Christmas. I think that's the question you have to answer and it's simply a yes or a no.
I don't think you are in a position to judge whether she can work or not. She's told you she isn't well enough and no-one on MN knows that isn't true. Regardless of their own experiences with cancer, all recoveries are different.
I find it interesting there's no mention of your relationship with her DCs. You seem to view all interactions with them through a prism of being advantageous to your DSIL.

LillithsFamiliar Interesting post, not sure I agree though we are not a bank making a decision on a loan based on a credit rating. She is family and as such it is more complicated. Are you telling me that you think all the other circumstances are irrelevant?
I couldn't care less is SIL worked or not, but the issue is she isn't able to support herself by not working and has made it my business by asking to borrow from us. I care an awful lot about SIL and genuinely want what's best for her.
As regards her children they are lovely and I enjoy spending time with them as do my DC. I only wants what's best for her and her children and that means supporting herself

The problem is that the relationship isn't an equal relationship between adult family members. I'd take a bet she wouldn't put herself out to help her brother and his family, because that isn't the dynamic that's been established.
In a way she's got so used to being helped out (not only when she's I'll which is different) that she has either lost the skills to look after herself or never developed them.
I can imagine she can't see a way to become more independent.

The fact she has a house she could sell but is utterly unrealistic about its value shows just how naïve and in a way entitled she is.

Don't lend her money for Christmas. Do offer her support in getting back to work.

Do give generous presents to the children for Christmas and birthdays (whatever that means to you). Do keep having them over (without making a regular commitment to childcare) - being employed is neither here nor there, she's still a separated parent who would like some support.

How old are the children and what kind of job can she get? If she has to children under 3 and a minimum wage job no way can she afford to go back to work.

What happens at Christmas? Do you all spend the day together? If not then YANBU, if so you may need to change something, open presents the day after or something. For example if Christmas is at yours it may be difficult for her kids if their cousins are opening stuff at the same time and its noticeably different

It seems as if she and your MIL now see themselves as your DHs dependants as that is the set up he encouraged before you got married. That has been perpetuated by you helping her since, albeit done with the best of intentions. However you are not happy to do it indefinitely and she needs to know this. If she cannot afford to buy Christmas presents or save for them given there are four months until December then she cannot afford to borrow money as how would she repay it? I would offer support and maybe help with budgeting but I guess that is not going to cut it with her so you can either be firm and say no, you cannot help financially or with childcare any more and risk the relationship breaking down not only with her but your DNs and your MIL or you maybe start to cut the ties and be less available to help either financially or with childcare. She sounds like the entitled type though so expect some fallout.

Yadnbu op! The world does not owe your grabby sil a living, shes milking her previous illness for everything she can. If she thinks she is as il as she says I'd suggest her applying for pip due to the effects of the chemo etc she might or may not get it. Tough shit if she thinks it's not fare that your DC get more that's irrelevant, lifes not fare infact its unfair that I'm not living in a mansion but hey ho. Tell her to use Christmas clubs like the post office or park where she can add money to as and when . Oh and dont feel guilty £100 on her dc is very generous.

If she can’t afford to save up what she wants to spend in 4 months then there’s no chance you’ll see a penny of it again which means it’s not a loan she’s after but a hand out. How did she manage last year? Did she ask for a specific amount?

I have a brother who has a mind boggling sense of entitlement thinking I and other siblings are lucky for what we have rather than having worked for it. He works now but in low paid work despite several qualifications (paid for by my parents) which give him options. He married someone who hadn’t worked since her first was born and that child was 16. She genuinely thought people who worked were mugs because you could get money from the government for nothing. She does now have a job, miracle, but they’ve made each other worse and strongly believe the world - starting with his family - owe them whatever they want. It’s frustrating and baffling. They’re otherwise nice people but the attitude bleeds into so many things, it’s difficult.