To get upset about women who judge me for being friends with their partners

[sugar88]

Just wanted to throw this out there as a different perspective.

I'm a woman who is working in a very male dominated industry and who studied a male dominated course at uni. I'm really not often around women.

Because of this, as you'd expect, most of my friends are men. I have 1 good female friend from school and probably 6 or so "good" male friends (to the extent you'd make an effort to message, catch up and meet up every so often etc) and my wider group of friends are mostly male.

I'd like some more female company as I do have a girly side who wants to dress up and go out which I don't really get to do with my male friends. I've found it hard to make female friends because 1) I don't meet many and 2) I seem to automatically get judged by women because I'm around men a lot of the time.

It also makes me reluctant to sustain friendships with some of my good male friends when they get partners as I never ever want to cause any problems or jealousy in a friend's relationship. I know for some women they are uncomfortable with partners spending time with other women. If I find out that this is the case I most definitely (but upsettingly) back away. It upsets me because I have lost great friends at no fault of my own. I even had a male work colleague admit his girlfriend despised me once and they've had arguments simply because she found out I was the only woman in his team. I never even met her, I didn't have her boyfriends number, I was in a long term relationship, I wouldn't even have considered him a friend and I never contacted him outside of work. It upsets me, imagine just turning up to your job everyday and working as anyone would and being hated from afar for it.

I've never even fancied any of my good male friends, and they've honestly never made moves on me. I've never had sex or even kissed someone who's not been my boyfriend. I've also only had 2 boyfriends in my entire life (I'm 26). In fact, I very rarely come across men I feel any more than friendship towards, I guess because I'm so used to being friends with guys.

I normally make an effort to get to know any male friends partners by inviting them to come to any meet ups we have as a friendship group to make sure they get to know me and I can get to know them/get a sense of their boundaries in an attempt to avoid any issues.

I sometimes go round male friends houses, they come round mine, have a cuppa, play video games, usual friendly stuff that a guy might do with another guy I guess.
I had a long term relationship which was mutually ended recently (not for anything dramatic, really nice guy it just ended up not working out) and he had no problem with this. I obviously did not have problems with him having female friends either. On a number of occasions he's invited over female friends (which I also knew quite well) while I wasn't there, sometimes he cooked them dinner and they ate and catched up etc etc etc. Some people think I'm crazy for "allowing" things like this but I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone I didn't fully trust and would be a hippocrite from stopping partners from having female friends and wouldn't think to do that anyway as it doesn't bother me.

I even had someone suggest once that I chose my career just to be around men (what?????)
I'm tired of being judged from the get go for this. At the same time I fully appreciate that there's many women out there that have been cheated on and find it hard to trust their partners completely. I don't get annoyed at women feeling like this, I just treat it as a sad reality of my life that I have to deal with, but I do at times get upset about it. I would love more female friends.

AIBU? And if you think you would be annoyed by me having the above sort of friendship with your partner, is there anything that the woman can do to make you more comfortable?

British Computer Society runs special interest groups round the country which are frequented by likeminded people who enjoy discussing technology and innovation. They are a good filter because they are people with a lot in common, professional, enjoy networking and are a friendly welcoming bunch.

OP you really need to start caring a lot less about other people's opinions. Just ignore people who make value judgements about you. Why should you care, honestly!

I think you need to stop worrying and managing other people's relationships. Just be with your friends (male or famale) how you normally are. They need to manage their own relationships and communicate with you if there is an issue. No need for you to consider their partners especially.

I'm finding these responses interesting since a lot of times I've read from online forums how you shouldn't have opposite gender friendships when in a relationship. Especially not making new ones. I personally don't agree but I've noticed that to be quite popular view. So I don't think you are not unreasonable.

I don't think you need to change at all, just continue your friendships as you usually would, if anyone has a problem then they will speak to you about it. On a side note, I was the woman who would get jealous, irrationally so, if my husband spent time with other women, that was in my 20's and I felt insecure. I am in my 30's now and my husband works in an office full of women, goes to lunch etc and I don't even bat an eye.

On a side note, I am just going back to uni to do a computing degree and hoping to move into software engineering.

@Teddybear45 its not unusual at all to have very few women in a team.

I think you’ve just been unlucky with some people in oddly possessive relationships. I’ve always got on really well with men and had a lot of make friends but usually their girlfriends have been completely fine about it. In fact girlfriends of my male friends are now some of my best friends.

Some people are overly possessive but try not to give it head space.

I don’t think you sound like you think you’re better than other woman as suggested by a pp. I just think you’re maybe indiscriminately looking for friends rather than letting friendships develop with women you have things in common with. If you’re into travel, wine, food, arts- anything really, maybe join a local group or class and you may make friends that way. If your big passion is coding/gaming and you don’t have much else to talk about with women then that might be the issue.

But to add, you sound perfectly nice and even a touch too self aware so I think you need to worry less what others think of you.

The moment you said you worked in games I thought 'ah' that makes sense. Whilst there are many of us that like gaming my experience is that most women I've encountered are not. When I worked in games men at social functions found me interesting not because of my stunning looks or wit, but because I could give them interesting info about their hobby/passion. Some women who were partners of these men were possessive in the way you're describing. I'm lucky that i have lots of good female friends both from work and outside of it but I'm older now and work in a completely different industry. As pp have said it gets better when you're older but there are many many women out there that like tech, games, science, politics and can be fantastic friends. Don't limit yourself in thinking you can't make friends with women because they're all too girly for you.

Hi, I am in software too (QA), and have always had lots of male friends/colleagues, i grew up with 3 brothers so never felt men were “other” or different”

Throughout my 20s I have been factored out by these friends’ wives and gfs.

I started to focus more on female friendships, and now am 48 and most of my friends are women.

A while back I was at a party and had a fun chat with my friend’s DH, until he was dragged away by her, as she said we were talking too long. There had been zero flirting (i don’t flirt or act girly, flutter my lashes or whatever, i never learned how )

It is just how it is, lots of people are insecure I think

Your comment about the women of the couples taking about laundry baskets got my back up a bit. I used to work in tech and hope to get back into it, currently sahm - I'm married and in my thirties. Have you heard about 'wife work'? It's a thing for most women: taking on more responsibility and mental load for the household, and even when the man things he's doing half he's often not! They're probably facilitating their husbands being able to spend time on hobbies you find interesting by doing all the wife work. Only to have you label them as boring and ignore them to talk to their husbands all evening. I didn't fully understand this when I was younger and motherhood has been an eye-opener. Alongside trying to get job interviews after an enforced career break, it's made me more of a feminist.

You're doing better than me though, I had issues being accepted in the workplace in tech in 2008-2012 and was v depressed etc.

I think you should stop looking down on women if you want more female friends. I know you don't see it as this, but it's coming across that way. You might experience sexism in the future, it's more of an issue when you've had kids (if you're planning on doing so).

Also I think many friendships (including, stereotypically, many female ones) revolve around showing an interest in the other person and their life. From what you've said I feel your could make more effort with this. It doesn't mean you have to share that many interests - just some really.

A lot of the jealous vibe could be more to do with the particular male culture you are in. At my work the men I work with are notorious shaggers and cheaters. Every Christmas do and night out someone will be hooking up with someone whether they are in a relationship or not, and unsurprisingly nearly all the gfs and wives of the men get jealous and suspicious, because they had good reason to be. Its a nightmare for everyone and I don't get why the guys think cheating is worth all the drama and agro it brings but clearly they do.

But in my previous job with a tech team the men didn't have the same outlook. They weren't into drama and scoring points by hooking up with people. Their gfs and wives would come out on the nights out and everyone was much more relaxed and friendships were better all around.

What is the culture like of your mates? Are they good guys who stick to their partners or are they "players"? Because that is going to make a difference to how their gfs see you.

I genuinely think it can be hard to make friends at a certain age and others say if your pool of meeting people is small you can just get unlucky and meet some women that react like this , if you don't have wider groups it can feel like it happens all the time.

Your comment about a new washing basket rankled me initially but having thought about it you didn't seem I hope to intimate all women not into gaming talked about vacuous subjects. Perhaps that woman did. In which case no, I would be bored rigid as well. I've met women who are untterably fascinating I met a carer the other day that educated me on the history of new Orleans jazz bands , the woman is an encyclopedia and it was cool to find out about a niche subject I had no knowledge on.

Saying that she has a colleague whose only topic of conversation famously is what her husband wants for dinner. Both lovely women but I confess I struggle with the second. It doesn't denigrate her , I'm aware she finds it lazy and weird that I don't cook DP's dinner. It's just different strokes and the second and I just don't have a lot in common. Last time I tried to cook for DP I forgot about it and burnt it.

The only one thing I would say is that , you experienced it with work colleagues partners, at a yoga class, with a previous group of friends. Now you may genuinely have just got unlucky but those seem very separate occasions and there is rather a saying that if something keeps happening are you the common denominator? Are you denigrating women ? Is It really that you genuinely are being decent and approachable or have you unintentionally created a persona of a "men are better friends than women"?

I found the ladettes of the nineties ridiculous because they made it a big thing that their mates were all men and how cool are they!!

Frankly if I have things in common with someone i haven't really found their genitalia particularly relevant. I do rather find the overt people who go on about men being easier than women to be friends with quite silly so I ignore them.

It may honestly be you just got unlucky but its worth at least reflecting honestly on your attitude if it is always repeating.

However the insecure aspect , frankly just ignore it, I would find it odd for a work colleague to mention that their partner was unhappy about me, why would they actively tell you , a friend and a colleague out of the blue. That's a bit of game playing.

My partner (male) and I work the other way around , we are in an extremely female dominated industry , he is one of three men in a group of 60 , and one of the others is the owner. He mostly only has contact with women, never been an issue at all. I vaguely remember a new young ish carer who got a bit silly over him, we were both a bit non plussed really. It more highlighted whether she was responsible enough to work with vulnerable people.

So after a flipping essay it's not really over all about men and women. Some people have things in common, some people are insecure , you could have just got unlucky so keep trying , but consider why it keeps happening and just ensure that you are not behaving in a way that is the common issue.

Ffs, the op did NOT mention the laundry basket thing. Can none of you read?!

You are overthinking it. Not everyone is going to like you. Just one friend's girlfriend disliking you isn't a huge percentage of your wider acquaintance. You can wear whatever you like regardless of who you hangout with - a real friend isn't going to judge you for wearing stereotypical girly clothes. It's nice going out with male friends; you know they aren't going to hit on you. Friendships aren't better based on gender. Your next friend isn't guaranteed to be more fun if they're female. And, no one is entitled to acquire bonus friends just because their friend has a partner. It's slightly bemusing that you want to hangout with your friends' partners. They might also become your friends if they like you... But they don't have to and shouldn't feel any obligation. x

I am the youngest in my family i have 7 big brother's so grew up to love football, wrestling action movies ect and generally get mens sense of humour more than woman's. I have lots of male friends that i play football with watch football with go for drinks with DH is thankfully fine with this as we do a lot of these things together. I do have 4 female friends who know me and don't judge but some other woman think it's wrong 🤷🏼‍♀️ I've been called a slag for hanging around with men. I'm 31 and married to my 1st love so I'm definitely not a slag 😂 it was just the way i grew up, my brother's friends became my friends and nothing more. Don't let anyone judge you for who you choose to be friends with.

I'm having to laugh at the mumsnet irony here though. Womans says her husband is friends with a female from work and might shock horror hang out with said woman, and you get a mix of "he wants to get in her pants OP", "i wouldnt trust a woman who wants to hang around my DH, she clearly fancies him" or the "cool wife" accusations when you dont mind of DH hangs round with women.

Then here you have a bunch of women telling the OP she's being somewhat paranoid to think these women of her male friends might think the OP is hitting on their partner.

Arrowfanatic, no irony here. Mumsnet is not one person after all.

I expect that all your male friend's partners are much less attractive than you so they are just jealous

Or something

There's been quite a few posts since I last looked, but I'll try my best to get through them.

First of all, @LiveInAHidingPlace @Mayagoldchoc @Shinyletsbebadguys I didn't make any comment about women and washing baskets? I think that was from someone else and you mistook it for my reply.

I'm not a woman hater at all and I don't think of myself as better than anyone. I went to a conference last year where I went to a talk by a senior lady in a well known company and she was taking about having 3 kids young while having a job managing 15 teams. I came away from that like what a f**king legend!!! I absolutely don't look down on women who chose to be SAHMs either. That is hard as hell. I 100% think I would find that harder than working full time, at my job at least.

@Mrsfs thanks for sharing your experiences and I just wanted to wish you all the best with your computer science degree! I'm sure you'll smash it!!

I just think you’re maybe indiscriminately looking for friends rather than letting friendships develop with women you have things in common with

@TheCatInAHat I think you're right. I do find myself trying harder when talking to women because I'm actively wanting to find some female friends. Maybe it comes across as a little fake/false/annoying. Whereas I generally don't do this with men as I'm not trying to make male friends and conversation tends to flow more easily anyway because of common interests etc. I think this is also touches on what you said @Mayagoldchoc, maybe I'm forcing conversations instead of just letting them flow naturally.

What is the culture like of your mates? Are they good guys who stick to their partners or are they "players"? Because that is going to make a difference to how their gfs see you.

@Fluffiest my male friends don't come across at all as being "notorious shaggers and cheaters" otherwise I would not be friends with them. There's been a mix from men I've worked with in my career. The ones that strut about the office talking about someone's wife they fingered last night are in my mind a bunch of losers. I don't have any interest in even being acquaintances with them let alone anything more. I'm not sure I've seen a correlation between girlfriends of losers vs decent guys taking a disliking to me. The situation I referred to in my original post about a work colleagues gf despising me was from a guy who seemed like a very nice and descent bloke. I almost felt a little sorry for him that she didn't trust him but I obv dont know their personal lives.

I have a few moments I repeatedly have flashbacks to where co-workers have said something so disrespectful about women/their girlfriend/their WIFE and I've felt too intimidated to tell them to stfu because I have a bunch of men round me agreeing and laughing etc etc. I WISH SO MUCH I said something in these situations. I think I'm getting better at it though. Thankfully, this is the minority of men I've come across...but I sometimes look at guys who would never say stuff like that and are sort of playing along with it just to fit in the crowd like WHYYYYYYYYYYYY.

@R44Me @daisychain01 I definitely need to worry less. Past experiences have just made me a little anxious/worry about it all too much. I don't know or assume that guys gfs don't like me I'm just worried that they might do and want to avoid it.

and @daisychain01 thanks for the British Computer Society suggestion, I'll definitely be looking into that!

YABU.

@sugar88

Do you WANT these women to be jealous of you?

Sounds like you do.

I bet most of them aren't...