To get upset about women who judge me for being friends with their partners

[sugar88]

Just wanted to throw this out there as a different perspective.

I'm a woman who is working in a very male dominated industry and who studied a male dominated course at uni. I'm really not often around women.

Because of this, as you'd expect, most of my friends are men. I have 1 good female friend from school and probably 6 or so "good" male friends (to the extent you'd make an effort to message, catch up and meet up every so often etc) and my wider group of friends are mostly male.

I'd like some more female company as I do have a girly side who wants to dress up and go out which I don't really get to do with my male friends. I've found it hard to make female friends because 1) I don't meet many and 2) I seem to automatically get judged by women because I'm around men a lot of the time.

It also makes me reluctant to sustain friendships with some of my good male friends when they get partners as I never ever want to cause any problems or jealousy in a friend's relationship. I know for some women they are uncomfortable with partners spending time with other women. If I find out that this is the case I most definitely (but upsettingly) back away. It upsets me because I have lost great friends at no fault of my own. I even had a male work colleague admit his girlfriend despised me once and they've had arguments simply because she found out I was the only woman in his team. I never even met her, I didn't have her boyfriends number, I was in a long term relationship, I wouldn't even have considered him a friend and I never contacted him outside of work. It upsets me, imagine just turning up to your job everyday and working as anyone would and being hated from afar for it.

I've never even fancied any of my good male friends, and they've honestly never made moves on me. I've never had sex or even kissed someone who's not been my boyfriend. I've also only had 2 boyfriends in my entire life (I'm 26). In fact, I very rarely come across men I feel any more than friendship towards, I guess because I'm so used to being friends with guys.

I normally make an effort to get to know any male friends partners by inviting them to come to any meet ups we have as a friendship group to make sure they get to know me and I can get to know them/get a sense of their boundaries in an attempt to avoid any issues.

I sometimes go round male friends houses, they come round mine, have a cuppa, play video games, usual friendly stuff that a guy might do with another guy I guess.
I had a long term relationship which was mutually ended recently (not for anything dramatic, really nice guy it just ended up not working out) and he had no problem with this. I obviously did not have problems with him having female friends either. On a number of occasions he's invited over female friends (which I also knew quite well) while I wasn't there, sometimes he cooked them dinner and they ate and catched up etc etc etc. Some people think I'm crazy for "allowing" things like this but I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone I didn't fully trust and would be a hippocrite from stopping partners from having female friends and wouldn't think to do that anyway as it doesn't bother me.

I even had someone suggest once that I chose my career just to be around men (what?????)
I'm tired of being judged from the get go for this. At the same time I fully appreciate that there's many women out there that have been cheated on and find it hard to trust their partners completely. I don't get annoyed at women feeling like this, I just treat it as a sad reality of my life that I have to deal with, but I do at times get upset about it. I would love more female friends.

AIBU? And if you think you would be annoyed by me having the above sort of friendship with your partner, is there anything that the woman can do to make you more comfortable?

I get a slight "cool girl" vibe from your posts. That is probably what's putting women off. You're used to being the girl, the laidback one who just wants to play videogames, has the same interests in the guys and would never have any insecurities or cause drama. Unlike women, who judge you and are weirdly protective of their boyfriends.

Do you see how your own attitude might be causing you difficulty here?

It is really hard.
Making friends gets harder as you get older and when you work in a male industry it is more difficult, especially as tech is so transient.

Have you been to any female in tech/gaming networking type events to meet women in the same boat?
I used to go to a bunch and it was a lifesaver to realise others were in the same boat.

Hi op, it sounds very much like my experience too.

I work in IT and did a Stem degree, I'm also in my 30s and I still get male friends gfs being uncomfortable.

It's frustrating but ultimately not a lot you can do.

@worriedaboutray it was a casual night out organised by the yoga class teacher for people in the class where you could bring your partners/friends along and just have a bit of fun etc. I brought my partner along too. It wasn't these girls specifically that organised a night out. I suppose I did spend a fair amount of time talking to their partners, and by that I mean it wasn't a passing conversation, but it still would have been a small part of the entire night as a whole.

@worriedaboutray I agree with almost everything you said. I do not see myself as a "cool girl", a lot of people do not think that people who play video games are "cool". At school I used to get girls telling me I'm pathetic for it and need to get a life. I can see why my attitude might be causing me difficulty here, I'm just not sure what to change or what to do about it.

I’m a woman in STEM and I think I was you a few years ago!

1. I have ASD and I think that leads to not being self conscious or really getting subtle group dynamics or “playing the game” which winds some people up. Eg I don’t hesitate to turn up to events solo as .....(why not? ) ....but I know that for some (weird) people a woman doing stuff solo is viewed as trying to pick up a guy (or someone’s husband ).

1. I completely acknowledge female hostility does happen, but also youre overthinking things a bit. Stop worrying about it. I think some women tend to gel better with other women (not just ASD, I have a theory it’s also to do with early experiences?). If you’re not one of them don’t try to make too much effort or change yourself.

Often social groups are hostile to solo women and then you end up talking to men simply as it’s easier then you get labelled scarlet woman and you don’t trust women so you end up being defensive and cut nice women out and it’s a vicious cycle....

Just focus on your own career development and fitness and personal finances (trust me, as you get older you’ll enjoy the paid off mortgage and travel opportunities and cash and health lot more than you will having “besties” you’ve probably drifted away from anyway. You’re in a great growing industry and get on with your colleagues - count your blessings)

1. Make an effort to go to “ladies who code”/ “tech meet ups for women” events when you can. If you have to get on a train to the next big city do it. They’re full of everyone from students to early career coders and a really friendly welcoming vibe all round. Even if the specified subject isn’t relevant to you just turn up and get a drink and chill out (most women aren’t specialists in the area being talked about - it’s more a social thing)

Glad to hear from people who understand.

@jay55 @ChristItsAlive great idea about going to women coding/gaming events. I really need to do this. I've thought about it in the past but I'm not really brave enough to solo go to a place where I know absolutely no one so it's put me off. I just need to get over it and do it, because then hopefully I'll find people there that I can attend these sort of events with in future.

I'm going to start Googling :)

I think it's totally unrealistic to assume that every woman in the world is jealous/takes issue with you because they're worried you'll nick their boyfriends. And thinking that way is probably the problem you're having.

I've got friends of both genders and have never encountered the issues you describe.

It's far more likely that (as in the yoga scenario), you make a beeline - subconsciously or otherwise - for the relative safety of a videogame natter with the men and don't make an effort with the women.

You won't be able to develop the female friendships you want unless you're willing to make smalltalk, find similar interests, give people a chance. And this means being polite to the partners while focusing on the people you're actually in the class with.

I'd be a bit put off if I went to a hobby social where a woman I barely knew was ignoring me but trying really hard with my husband.

Hmm...if you’re in a STEM field and want female friends then I suggest you branch out into a role with international scope. Most truly global STEM roles tend to be populated by Asian women as the take up of these courses / jobs is usually at least 50:50 outside the US / UK / Europe.

As for coding - I am learning how to code and doing it via a workshop where all the experts are women. Most of the ‘hard’ coders I employ in my team at an investment bank are women (UK and in Asia as these tend to be work from home jobs that tend to attract more female applicants). So I do think you probably aren’t being entirely honest about the lack of women in your job.

@worriedaboutray I spoke to them during the night more than I spoke to their partners. I just had an involved conversation with their partners at one point that they didn't join with in because they didn't share the same interests. Now you've mentioned your point of view I'm wondering whether I did subconsciously exclude them from something they wanted to be involved in. If I did I really didn't mean to. I was about to type that I'll try be more conscious of this in the future but I guess that's the source of my paranoia...worrying about these things unnecessary.

I also don't assume all women are jealous of me. I'm just conscious that I might be overstepping a boundary that I'm not even aware of (and in my opinion may be a little unfair) because it's happened before. I've gotten on great with some of male males friends exs and there's been no hostility there. But, as relationships end I obviously stay friends with the man and not as much with the gf as someone normally would when a friend separates from someone.

I guess I agree with you that I should try to make much more effort with female friendships as it does come a little harder to me simply because I tend to find we might not have a lot in common. I haven't gone on a girls night out since early uni days and I really miss it. I'd love to throw on a nice dress and go out with a group of girls again.

I have many male friends, always have and I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Almost like you like the idea of them being jealous of you? I can only think of 2 of my friends partners who had a problem with the friendships but I could have been any woman, it wasn't to do with me specifically. They were just very very paranoid.
If the majority of them genuinely feel that way then I'd wager that you're behaving inappropriately/overstepping boundaries of friendships.

Trouble is op it is normal to vack off a bit when a male friend gets a gf. I do it unconsciously. Could it be that you are not backing off or respecting the couple's space?
If you do settle down you need a man who's also comfortable with you having close male friends.

I work in a STEM and software environment and the number of women is growing. You won't be in a huge minority for too much longer (although this in the UK).

Back off even....

@Teddybear45 in my last team at my last company there were 2 females including me under my managers manager. There must have been about 15 men and 2 women and I was the only woman in my managers team. That's not necessarily typical in all tech places, but in the experience I've had I would say there's average 90/10 male female ratio in the offices I've worked in. Maybe it's different elsewhere and I've been working in the wrong sort of places?

@WaterOffaDucksCrack this is so far off the mark. I honestly hate it and it brings me anxiety in social situations...that's probably why I'm making a "mountain over a molehill". I wouldn't say the majority of women I've encountered feel this way, just that I've had situations in the past that have made me very conscious of it all, and the fact that I don't meet many women I guess blows it out of proportion in my mind.

@catwithnohat I hope so!! I'm starting to see the number of women in my industry grow and it's great! I think it's all to do with initiatives to get young people coding which I've gotten involved in in the past. I'm almost certain that the ratio will equalise somewhat in the next generation.

I wholeheartedly strongly recommend any woman get into coding. It's a decently paid industry and it's normally very flexible. It's ideal for anyone who wants to have a kid and needs flexibily with their work for that. I think it's a real shame that there's not more women involved in it at the moment.

Where is your DP when you are socialising with your co workers? Surely if their DPs are there so would yours be.

@R44Me the only socialisation I do with work colleagues really are the standard team/company socials where partners are not about. The one male work colleague I'm good friends with and still am, even though we work for separate companies now, was single the whole time I worked with him (I wasn't).

Most of my good male friends are from uni times. The problems I've had with male co-workers, and I know this is a minority as it's happened twice out of all the men I've worked with, is these guys I guess mentioning to their partners about work colleagues and therefore mentioning me to them and seemingly getting very jealous at just my presence at their partners workplace. I'm not so worried about these scenarios as these men are not my friends and I don't even talk to these guys that much so there's nothing I can do about it. It's more my existing male friends I worry about screwing up a friendship with when they have/get partners. I've had a few male friends in the past I no longer speak to because of this. It just has upset me on some occasions that's all.

I guess the topic of conversation is spreading to my professional life too which I wasn't intending. My main concerns aren't there.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's posts and all points of views. The conclusion I'm making from this is I just need to chill out.

I know I'm not doing anything with male friends that I wouldn't do with a female friend so I just need to remember that and move on from anything that upsets me.

I wanted to post on here as I don't often get a females point of view and I really wanted to hear people's opinions. It's put my mind to rest a bit.

Thank you all!!

This is my experience aswell. I also work in engineering, been with my partner for 5+ years and was with him before I started at my company.

I have a lot of friends who's girlfriends don't like me - the majority who I have never met.

I find it utterly bizarre and think it smacks of 'playground politics'. It's had an impact on one of my friendships whereby he wasn't allowed to speak to me (admittedly I know this is an extreme case because his - now ex - girlfriend was on the sliding scale of weird... but still?!

How do you know the girlfriends don't like you?

DH has always got on better with female friends. We’re 28 and been together almost 10 years- it’s never occurred to me to mind. We joke that he always had a work wife/ work Mum. One of his good friends is a women in her 40’s. They have the same hobby, I think you meet friends in all different places and age/ gender doesn’t really come into it. Especially as you get older and have a family.

I am friends with lots of men and most wives / GFs are fine with it. However I heard rumblings that one wife was upset with me, felt there were too many online pics of me with her partner etc. I feel sad that I am upsetting another woman. I made particular efforts to befriend her, and the pics were reduced. I think women need to have each others' backs. It is not hard to to do this!!! Be careful you are not feeling a little internal triumph that you are unsettling other women, as that is pretty lame.

I'm definitely getting the vibe that you think you're better than other women.

I've never sat around talking about laundry baskets and I don't know anyone who does.

Women who bang on about how much better they get on with men tend to be quite tiring ime. A lot of internalised misogyny normally.

Liveinahiding it wasn't op going on about laundry baskets, it was BrightYellowDaffodil. I rolled my eyes at that comment too. Like women are never discuss books, politics, world issues etc and are only interested in utterly inane shit.