AIBU to ask what is the difference between smacking a child and abuse?

[lowbluehorizon]

I was talking about my childhood with my Mum yesterday. I harbour quite a lot of resentment about it. My Dad had a very nasty temper and would regularly hit us if he didn't like the look on our faces, or we said something he didn't like. I was the only girl and received the brunt of it. I can remember many occasions where he lost his temper and I would be on the floor screaming while hits were raining down on me. He never used a belt and never hit me on the face. The worst of it started at the age of 11 and I think the last time he hit me was around the age of 19. I suffered with quite a bit of depression due to this and made my first suicide attempt at age 17 and again around the age of 23. I have battled with low mood and depression all my life. I never hit my own children.

My parents were working-class and I lived in a nice, clean home and they both worked hard. On the surface, everything should have been ok. None of my friend's parents hit then and I envied their happy go lucky attitudes as a result. My Mum never defended me when I used to get hit and she revealed to me that he hit her once when they were 'courting' and a few times in their early marriage but not in recent years. I was quite shocked but this. They have been married for nearly 50 years and his temper has mellowed with age.

What are your views on hitting children? Where does smacking end and it become child abuse? I am extremely anti-smacking, I remember being hit lots but never the reason why nor the 'lesson' that was trying to be taught.

I think the difference between what you describe and a smack on the back of a nappy to deter a child from grabbing a saucepan handle is obvious. I don’t hit my children, but they are patently not the same, are they?

Whilst both the police and children's services do what they can to discourage physical chastisement of any sort, the fact remains that smacking children is not against the law in the UK. From my previous work as a Safeguarding Lead in a school, the line came when it was anything other than an open hand, or if it left any sort of mark (e.g. red mark on skin, not necessarily a bruise).

Personally, I was smacked as a child by both parents and whilst it "didn't do me any harm", I do not agree with hitting children in any way.

I'm so sorry you endured all that.

To answer your question, I do not believe in smacking children.

My parents did not smack us and as we grew older we discussed this with them. They both said that it was indefensible.

They were firm but not strict and we respected and loved them. I know that some of my schoolfriends were smacked and it used to frighten me.

With my own children, DH and I were quite clear with one another that smacking would not form part of disciplining our DC.

I take on board herculepoirot2's example about rescuing a child from danger, BTW and I agree with her.

But physical abuse is to be deplored.

I'm so sorry @lowbluehorizon for the childhood abuse you suffered.
The people who ought to have protected you didn't and that is wrong.
Did you have any counselling, especially following your suicide attempts.
It doesn't matter how long ago this happened, if you feel it might help to have someone to listen.
Your dad is especially horrible reserving the worst of the abuse for you, the only girl, but then bullies are like that.
for you.

Fwiw I do think hitting children should be against the law, no one will ever convince me it's wrong to hit an adult but okay to hit a vulnerable child.

You were abused.

I don’t agree with smacking at all but what you describe is horrific, bullying abuse. The fact that you bore the worst of it and you were the only girl is telling - you were unlikely to quickly grow to be bigger and stronger than him, like boys were.

When you said the last time it happened was age 19, I was hoping that was because you finally belted him back.

What do your parents say now?

Yes your case was clearly abuse. My parents smacked us and so did dh’s but only when we’d done something really awful like wilful destruction of a carpet or furniture and I can count on one hand the number of times that happened.

As Hercule says, a one off slap because you’re overwhelmed and your child has endangered themselves (most common with toddlers etc) clearly isn’t, although it’s undesirable.

I had the odd smack on the bum when I was naughty, nothing compared to what you endured, and whilst on the whole “it did me no harm”, it didn’t do me any good either. It didn’t make me a better behaved, nicer or kinder child. I just remember feeling humiliated, and betrayed that the mummy I loved so much could hurt me.

I never want my DC to feel like that. They won’t be hit. Children should never, ever be frightened that the people who are supposed to love them most will hurt them.

Using physical violence against a child is abhorrent

Why even do it on the back of a nappy as a deterrent to danger? Surely removing them quickly from the situation and a sharp "no" would suffice?

Absolutely no need.

I'm sorry for what you went through, OP - I went through very similar to you. Therapy is helping me and a lot of reading up on the subject also helped me to understand what I went through was not normal.

I hope you can find peace x

My Mum told me yesterday, the first time ever that she feels dreadfully sorry for how I was treated and agreed that I was almost the family scapegoat and she can see how it has affected me long term. My mother is very timid and was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis at the time and physically quite vulnerable - I don't blame her. She is a kind good person, I blamed her at the time, but I don't blame her now. I have never spoken to my Dad at about. My Mum said he would probably say 'I don't remember' and I think she is right. If he were to say that I would be terribly hurt as it significantly impacted me and triggered off a cycle of depression. I've never received counselling for it.
The confusing thing is that I have a reasonable relationship with him now and he is kind in many ways, he is not all bad, it would make it easier to process if he were all bad if that makes sense.
I remember during my secondary years regularly going to school after crying myself to sleep the night before and bursting into tears when a friend's Mum was kind to me. Because when I was hit, it wasn't deserved and nobody cared that I was inconsolable and nobody ever said sorry and that none of it was my fault. I am 42 now and the pain and sadness have never gone away. Hitting children can destroy self-esteem and set them up for a lifetime of mental health issues. Good td hear that so many people on here are against it.

All hitting is either cold calculated abuse or an inability to master your anger.
I went through a lot of physical abuse and neglect as a child. I have found no forgiveness or understanding to offer those who treat others that way. There's literally no need.

Why even do it on the back of a nappy as a deterrent to danger? Surely removing them quickly from the situation and a sharp "no" would suffice?

I don’t and wouldn’t, but it isn’t the same as beating your child and screaming in their face.

I’m not against smacking, I was smacked as a child everyone I know was. It doesn’t bother me or upset me. I don’t think what you’re describing is the same though.

LemonRedwood it's against the law in Scotland to smack a child.

Yes I don’t smack mine either but one slap isn’t the same as abuse like this and it is hysteria to say it is. That’s really confusing op, and horrible that you have no closure as your dad can’t/won’t discuss it, no wonder you have suffered depression.

I work with children in a safeguarding role. According to the law smacking (with an open hand) isn't a crime. Hitting a child with a closed fist or an implement is classed as an assault but smacking isn't. Personally, I think smacking is an abusive, outdated and entirely unecessary practice that has no place in modern society but the law does not agree with me. I have found it frustrating when DC I've worked with have described being smacked repeatedly by their parents and finding it upsetting, humiliating and frightening but Children's Services aren't able to intervene because there is "no evidence of physical injury".

I'm sorry for what you went through, OP. Whatever the law says, it wasn't ok and you have every right to feel hurt and angry about how you were treated

I don’t hit my kids, but I wouldn’t call a quick, light snack on the bum/back of legs abuse, if it was done sparingly and only in the dangerous/ extremely naughty situations, where a quick shock works to stop the behaviour.

My mum used to back hand us around the face repeatedly, from probably the age of 3 to teen. She also threatened to stab me, picked me up by my hair and threw me and shoved bars of soap in my mouth. She was a scary woman and I have very few happy childhood memories of her. She’s mellowed a lot with age and is pretty unrecognisable as the same woman now. She doesn’t even remember doing a lot of what she did (three kids have the same memories though, so it all happened). She was very depressed, but that’s not an excuse to beat your kids.

Anyway, what my mum did and your dad did was abuse. I think the line is somewhere around stopping just being chastisement and then just using beating their kids as an outlet for their own emotions and frustrations.

Why even do it on the back of a nappy as a deterrent to danger? Surely removing them quickly from the situation and a sharp "no" would suffice?

Absolutely. It's completely unnecessary. There are plenty of ways to set boundaries and consequences without resorting to smacking.

There are plenty of ways to set boundaries and consequences without resorting to smacking.

Sure. But that wasn’t the question.

The difference is whether the parent is in control at the time, and what they hope to achieve with the smack.
And smack given in temper is abuse.

To me there’s a difference between smacking and abuse (I don’t agree with or smack myself, but I’m wouldn’t interfere and don’t feel super strongly against it).

A smack is one slap after warning to punish the child and stop or correct behaviour.

Abuse is beating, hurting excessively etc for no reason

I've smacked DS three or four times, I could probably tell you exactly what happened each time, the common denominator was my own frustration or having a huge fright (twice were after he'd bolted around extremely busy roads).

I regret it bitterly, sorted myself out, did some work on why smacking was something I would even think of doing (I was smacked, and in fact beaten as a child) and made a conscious effort to never do it again.

That's not abuse. That's an unskilled, badly parented parent who got it wrong four times and smacked.

I am sorry that this happened to you. Physical abuse is physical abuse. Under extreme provocation a person may lash out. And due to the deep love between a parent and a child this may well be forgiven. But what you describe is far removed from that. You father was an abusive man. He physically abused his spouse and his children.

Tighnabruaich

Apologies. I should have said not against the law in England and Wales.

No difference. Smacking a child is abuse. It should be illegal.

Smacking is abuse, no excuses.