AIBU to ask what is the difference between smacking a child and abuse?

[lowbluehorizon]

I was talking about my childhood with my Mum yesterday. I harbour quite a lot of resentment about it. My Dad had a very nasty temper and would regularly hit us if he didn't like the look on our faces, or we said something he didn't like. I was the only girl and received the brunt of it. I can remember many occasions where he lost his temper and I would be on the floor screaming while hits were raining down on me. He never used a belt and never hit me on the face. The worst of it started at the age of 11 and I think the last time he hit me was around the age of 19. I suffered with quite a bit of depression due to this and made my first suicide attempt at age 17 and again around the age of 23. I have battled with low mood and depression all my life. I never hit my own children.

My parents were working-class and I lived in a nice, clean home and they both worked hard. On the surface, everything should have been ok. None of my friend's parents hit then and I envied their happy go lucky attitudes as a result. My Mum never defended me when I used to get hit and she revealed to me that he hit her once when they were 'courting' and a few times in their early marriage but not in recent years. I was quite shocked but this. They have been married for nearly 50 years and his temper has mellowed with age.

What are your views on hitting children? Where does smacking end and it become child abuse? I am extremely anti-smacking, I remember being hit lots but never the reason why nor the 'lesson' that was trying to be taught.

I was smacked a few times as a child. Slapped on the bum when I'd done something really naughty and then sent to my room for a bit and then my parents would come and talk about it after and we would all apologise. I think once I got a little slap on the face. I think it maybe stopped when I was about 9? I would estimate I would be able to count all incidents on my hands. I am close to my parents now and genuinely dont think it has done me any harm. I dont smack my own children, my youngest is too small for punishments and my eldest it seems to stick more if we explain calmly otherwise she gets so upset she doesn't really take in the 'lesson'

So I am not anti smacking but to me, what you went through was out and out abuse. It was frequent (so not just for worst offences) unjustified (for a 'look' or for saying something he didn't like is not something most parents would punish a child for in any way), excessive (blows plural is a violent attack not just smacking) and not age appropriate (older children completely understand other types of punishment, and he was still attacking you when you were an adult).

I am really sorry this was part of your upbringing. It wasnt normal or acceptable and it's not surprising it has had lifelong consequences. I really think counselling would help you come to terms with this

What you went through was abuse, so sorry you suffered through that. I did too, my dad caused deafness in one ear, threatened me with a hot iron, had me on the floor kicking me etc, he was a horrible man and now claims it ‘never happened and all in mine and my sisters heads’ he’s a poisonous evil man.

There is no excuse for laying a hand on a child. I remember being a very young mum and thinking smacking my eldest son was the way to discipline him. Happened once or twice and I felt bloody awful and never did it again - it’s what I knew. My mum smacked us and I even got the wooden spoon and metal spoon once. She will still advocate it but laying a hand on a child is not the way to teach them anything.
It’s so hard when they are playing up and you’re overwhelmed but smacking doesn’t solve anything it just causes more problems.

The difference is whether the parent is in control at the time

I disagree with this. Unfortunately, plenty of physical abuse is calculated and controlled by the abuser.

I was another ' I was smacked and it never did me any harm' - but as PP have said - it wasn't like the OP has said. I was also at school in the days of corporal punishment and I do wonder what we can do nowadays to bring discipline back into schools. I never got the slipper (girls - slipper, boys - cane) because I behaved, nothing like the threat of being slippered to make you conform, and rightly or wrongly it worked. I know in theory you shouldn't have to control children by fear but the issues there are in schools nowadays I am wondering what will work? I never knew of any expulsions in any of the schools I went to, and detentions don't seem to have any effect. What's the solution (Sorry to hijack your post OP).

What you suffered was abuse. "Laying on the floor with hits raining down" cannot, in any scenario, be described as a smack for bad behaviour.

I have never hit my children, nor have I wanted to.

This comment As Hercule says, a one off slap because you’re overwhelmed and your child has endangered themselves (most common with toddlers etc) clearly isn’t, although it’s undesirable. always intrigues me though. If your toddler is in danger then the fault lies with you as the adult, so why smack your child?

I don't think a single slap is abuse but I would like all physical punishments on children banned.

I’m sorry for what you have endured in your childhood and the effect it has had on you as an adult.

Honestly to me this is abuse. This is not a tap on the bum or hand (do not necessarily agree with that but realise it happens).

What you describe is a beating. If someone were talking about that treatment from a partner it would be domestic abuse. It feels the same to me.

I hope you have been able to move on and forward from this

Dear God, some of you're stories of abuse are horrific. I feel genuinely upset for you.
Smacking is NEVER the answer.

OP you were BADLY physically abused

Counselling might well help, and invoice your bastard father. I don't care how nice he is now, his treatment of you was downright evil.

I found it really interesting that a couple of posters who had been badly hit by their parents say that the parent denies it. I've spoken to my Mum about it several times but never, ever to my Dad. I think if ever I plucked up the courage he would deny it or say it didn't happen and that would hurt more than anything. The lack of apology hurt me to my very core as a child and denial would hurt even more. These situations create very complex emotions, even more so when they are not 100% evil. It makes you question yourself. Was it as bad as I remember? Am I being overly sensitive? My Mums admission that she felt guilty about it has at least put those feelings to rest in some way.
Out of everything, what he did to me made me fail to thrive and meet my potential. I was top of my class during primary school, did ok at GCSE's at A'Levels but struggled due to depression. I couldn't face University at went straight out to work and continue to struggle with depression.
Both my brothers went to University and about six years ago my Dad said to me ' You weren't as clever as your brothers, you just tried hard'. I was so hurt by that, the lack of acknowledgement of how much better I would have done in life if I had been faced with daily conflict and fear. Battering my self-esteem to the very end. The following week I signed up for an Open University Degree which I studied while bringing up my two children. It took me five years but I graduated this year with a First Class Degree, my brothers got a 2:2 and 2:1 - still good of course but I felt vindicated. When he told me well done, I couldn't resist replying "Thanks, but not as clever as the other two, I just try hard".

Another thing is that I look very much like him to the extent that people used to always comment on it. This added to the self-loathing, being told you look just like someone that hits you and who I despised at the time. He used to say to me that I would end up like him too, fat and hairy and then laugh. Seriously, who would say that to their daughter?

Basically, I feel that hitting children humiliates them, lowers self-esteem creates mental health problems and causes them to fail to thrive. No good comes of it.

This comment As Hercule says, a one off slap because you’re overwhelmed and your child has endangered themselves (most common with toddlers etc) clearly isn’t, although it’s undesirable. always intrigues me though. If your toddler is in danger then the fault lies with you as the adult, so why smack your child?

If the adult smacks because they have lost control, there is no point applying any logic to that decision. They are angry and lashing out.

If the adults smacks in order to teach a very small child the importance of not doing a specific thing, then the purpose of the smack isn’t to punish, it is to teach. People will ask, why can’t you just say “no” in a sharp tone? Well, I think the answer to that is that I say that to my daughter frequently- she still throws things, has tantrums etc. So it isn’t a failsafe option to just tell her no. I don’t hit, but I see the logic in saying my daughter would actually be a bit safer if I did. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't agree with assaulting children. My parents never assaulted me or my brothers, and I've never assaulted mine.
My father is a wonderful man, Father and husband who always stated very firmly that he detests men who assault vulnerable people, including females.
By his definition, I am a female and therefore he would never raise his hand to me.
Fortunately I married a man with the same opinion.
OP, I can't imagine how absolutely horrible it must have been for you. I hope that in the future you can somehow let it go and not let it shadow your future.

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between either because a smack is literally an assault. Those who disagree that smacking is not a form of violence and/or are for smacking are just as bad as the abusers themselves.

What you experienced was abuse, not just ‘smacking’ (which I also disagree with)
I’m sorry you had to go through that - you really really did not deserve it.
Smacking is argued for in some cases to ‘chastise’ especially if a child puts themselves in harms way. Therefore, the worst of the abuse you suffered starting at age 11 and carrying on in to adulthood cannot be classed as chastisement.
Your father is a bully and I hope he deeply regrets how he behaved towards his children. What a nasty, nasty man.

This is why it is so problematic that smacking is not legal! I mean, in the eyes of the law - how many times is ok? And for what reason? Are parents free to just smack as much and as often as they like, for stupid reasons (or even no reason at all) as long as they don’t make a mark?? What about the emotional abuse in this situation?

Basically, I feel that hitting children humiliates them, lowers self-esteem creates mental health problems and causes them to fail to thrive. No good comes of it

Couldn’t agree more.

It sounds to me like you were abused,
But I also ask myself the same question.
My alcoholic father would smack me with his hand/ belt or slipper.
I got pulled up the stairs by my hair aswell, this was all before the age of 10.

I can’t remember either what I had done to deserve the smack. Although I feel I must’ve done something as I don’t remember being smacked for no reason.

My dad physically beat my mother in his drunken rages too, so I know that he was abusive.
The last time he tried to smack me was when I was 14, I wanted to take my dinner to my room, my mum said no but I took it and went anyway. He followed me and tried to smack my face, he got a hot gravy dinner thrown at his face in the end.

It’s Funny how I’ve ended up with a spirited head strong daughter too who pushes the limits with me. I did try smacking her for punishment, but I didn’t like the guilt I felt and it never seemed to work long term.
She swiped me back a few times so it is obvious to me that it is no longer a form of punishment that works. Kids talk nowadays about abuse, and are quick to point the finger.
The era of corporal punishment is over in my opinion.

@Lemonredwood
@Tighnabruaich

it actually is against the law in all parts of the UK, in the same way it is against the law to physically strike a stranger's child or an adult. The difference is the common-law defence of "reasonable chastisement" being available to parents. In Scotland this defence has been removed, and it will be removed in Wales shortly as well.

I find it crazy that we have laws forbidding us to slap, smack or hit other adults but that we have loopholes allowing parents to smack their children. What's the difference? Calling it a 'tap' doesn't stop it being an adult hitting someone smaller than them. Call it what it is; it's hitting. Any adult that thinks hitting a child will do anything to instil positive behaviour is an idiot.

Basically, I feel that hitting children humiliates them, lowers self-esteem creates mental health problems and causes them to fail to thrive. No good comes of it

This

And what, FudgeBrownie2019* said, with bells on.

Ithinkmycatisevil "I think the line is somewhere around stopping just being chastisement and then just using beating their kids as an outlet for their own emotions and frustrations."

Couldn't agree more with your statement. It's hard to quantify, and many parents who physically discipline wouldn't ever admit to it, but I think it's absolutely true, and what's more, children can definitely tell the difference between a few and far between (light) smack on the bottom for example following some dangerous or very naughty behaviour for which they are fully aware was wrong, and a parent who is tired/frustrated/depressed about something else altogether and is looking for a reason or excuse or an outlet for those feelings and take them out on the child.

I don’t think there’s any difference either person. If an adult smacked me it would be abuse, regardless of whether they considered it discipline.

A child can’t remove themselves or protect themselves so it’s even worse.

I know many adults who are NC with a parent as they deemed it acceptable to hit a child.

OP, I'm so sorry to hear what you went through in your childhood. Mine was similar and was hit many times as were my sisters - we also lived in an abusive household and witnessed lots of violence from my parents to each other.

I think hitting a child for whatever reason is absolutely unacceptable and the thought of humiliating and hurting my children has never ever crossed my mind. I think in say 20 years time, people will be shocked that it was ever legal - a bit like spousal rape or hitting your wife. I don't know any parents that hit their kids at all. It's abhorrent.

People who hit their kids should be arrested as they would be if they hit an adult and I really don't understand how anyone can justify it in this day and age. Makes me sick

My Dad was about 6ft 3 and nearly 20 stone when he used to hit me. Yet law states

Under Section 58 of the Children Act 2004, it is unlawful for a parent or caregiver to smack their
child, except where this amounts to “reasonable punishment”, though this is not defined in the legislation. So whether a smack amounts to reasonable punishment will depend on the circumstances of each case, taking into consideration factors like the age of the child and the nature
of the smack. Physical punishment will be considered “unreasonable” if it leaves a mark on the child or if the child is hit with an implement such as a cane or a belt.

I remember have red marks on my legs but not bruising. Being physically attacked by such a large man with a loud frightening voice is terrifying. One thing I am grateful for is my very calm, kind, quietly spoken husband. My two children rarely hear the sound of raised voices.
I always say to my husband about education that problems with maths and English can be overcome, but you can't repair a broken spirit. I believe this to be true if I can give my children one thing it is the gift of good mental health into adulthood. I don't think my spirit will ever repair and I will always feel very bitter about that.