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Original poster

To think that suspending parliament is to actually avoid no deal rather than force it

64 replies

Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 10:30

I’d love a crystal ball to see how this is all going to pan out. In lieu of that I think Boriss plan is to make everyone think he’s willing to go for no deal which will have the opposite effect and lead to a deal

It will have to be pretty much what’s always been on offer but it’ll be talked up as being different

Then it’s just a case of how many Leavers actually want more than being able to say we’ve left as to whether that deal survives

OP posts:
kitk · 29/08/2019 10:37

Are you saying he's playing chicken with the EU to bully them into giving him what he wants? That would be incredibly risky, unethical and idiotic, even for Boris

familycourtq · 29/08/2019 10:47

I can imagine he is using it as a ploy to try and get MPs to vote through a deal. Opposition to the WA came from a lot of sources though, not just the ERG, so he'll have an uphill struggle unless the EU blinks - which would appear unlikely.

familycourtq · 29/08/2019 10:48

That would be incredibly risky, unethical and idiotic, even for Boris
Eh? It sounds exactly like Boris.

Idontwanttotalk · 29/08/2019 10:51

You could have something there OP.

The EU need to believe we are prepared to walk away with no deal in order to actually do a deal with us.

If all the politicians who don't want a 'no deal' just kept quiet and left the actual politicians negotiating with the EU to it, then I'm pretty sure the EU would come up with a better deal for us.

@kitk
It's normal practice in a lot of business negotiations. Sometimes you have to take risks. Sometimes you have to be idiotic when dealing with idiots too. We are dealing with a unethical organisation. Doing a financial deal with an organisation whose own financial accounts require looking into.

HandsReachingOut · 29/08/2019 10:52

A paper yesterday said there may be a no confidence vote in Boris next week and it would force a general election. Not very smart to play chicken with the EU because they are already fed up with him. He had no answers to the questions yesterday and kept chanting about a Queen's Speech in October and laughing. Hmm Going around being a twat doesn't endear him to anyone and he is not doing the UK any favours.

Lifecraft · 29/08/2019 11:08

Are you saying he's playing chicken with the EU to bully them into giving him what he wants? That would be incredibly risky, unethical and idiotic, even for Boris

I have no idea if that's what he's doing, but if it is, there's nothing wrong with that. I did that when I bought a house. Offered less than they wanted, and said that was absolutely it, and if they didn't accept, no deal. In fact I was prepared to pay the asking price had they told me to get lost, but I didn't want them to know that. They accepted my offer.

It's quite common when negotiating anything, to lie, and say you aren't prepared to budge another inch, when in fact you know you are. In the hope that you won't have too.

kitk · 29/08/2019 11:15

@Lifecraft the difference with doing it to buy a house though, is that a deal will be done to buy that house, either by you or someone else. If we leave with no deal, we're not suddenly free on 1st November- we're in a weaker negotiating position while we wade through the next x years of sorting things out. A deal still has to be done, it'll just be done after the event when we don't have such a strong position. It wld be nice to think that you and the PP further up were right that this is a totally normal event with precedence in business, but I can't quite believe it, sorry

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 11:28

Are you saying he's playing chicken with the EU to bully them into giving him what he wants?

No, I think he’s playing chicken with the UK to convince us he’s got us what we wanted even though nothing will really change

OP posts:
WhatdoImean · 29/08/2019 11:30

Also.... presumably you still had a house to live in, if they had not accepted your offer? In this scenario, you are telling your current landlord "drop the rent or I am off", while the land lord is saying "Errm... OK; there are a lot of people desperate to rent the place you have, especially with all the special bells and whistles you have, but if you want to go, go ahead"

If we do walk out, we go with nothing... and still need somewhere to live (i.e. we still need to trade with the EU). So, to continue the image - we are out there, standing in the rain, telling the people on the inside, this is all your fault.

You do not take this kind of approach unless you have a very good stand-by plan. At the moment, we seem to have a 30 year old tatty tent as a stand-by...

Aposterhasnoname · 29/08/2019 11:33

Yup, I think your absolutely right. The only way to get a deal, and get it through parliament is to convince everyone that he really will go for no deal. The fact that everyone is losing their minds over it is proof it’s working.

familycourtq · 29/08/2019 11:39

So it'll be all about the maths - I assume the 14 Lib Dems won't support a deal (or no deal) since they don't support anything that involves leaving - same with SNP (35). So far only a very few Labour MPs have voted for the deal.....

MerryChristmasHarry · 29/08/2019 11:40

Given that he isn't actually stupid enough to want No Deal or to be at the helm when it happens, and that he's already shown he's more interested in himself and his party than the country, I think it's a strong possibility.

Nobody actually wants No Deal other than faith based Brexiters, which he isn't, and people who think we need to just get the inevitable done and get through the pain now. The latter isn't Johnson either, since he's obviously not up for facing up to what we've done and taking our medicine.

However I think his main motivation for this is positioning himself well for a GE. He's trying to win back Brexit party voters. Essentially most of the things the Tories have done over the last few years have been aimed at the Brexit/UKIP vote, so this is no different really. When the nasty Parliament and courts do erm, the things they're supposed to do, he can be all I tried, I really did Mr Banks sir, honest. I desperately wanted to leave. I even put Priti Patel in one of the great offices of state, and nobody would ever do that unless they were a real Brexiter. He's pretending.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 11:42

I assume the 14 Lib Dems won't support a deal (or no deal) since they don't support anything that involves leaving - same with SNP (35). So far only a very few Labour MPs have voted for the deal.....

That’s the whole point - with a choice between the WA and someone who looks actually mad enough to go for no deal they’ll support the WA

OP posts:
familycourtq · 29/08/2019 11:43

@MerryChristmasHarry - so you think he's trying to win an election - when though? Before or after Halloween?

greentheme23 · 29/08/2019 11:44

Stop trying to credit this man with more intelligence than he actually has! Absolutely none of his ideas so far have been clever or have worked!

familycourtq · 29/08/2019 11:44

@Bearbehind You think the Lib Dems will vote for the WA? I can't see that but anything seems possible I suppose.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 11:46

I think his main motivation for this is positioning himself well for a GE.

This is the part that fascinates me, in a horrifying way. If he builds the hardcore Leavers up for no deal and doesn’t deliver, then what?

How does that win him a GE?

It’s a fine balance between not actually going through with no deal but doing enough to win a GE

OP posts:
LadyInTheHouse · 29/08/2019 11:53

My brother works in the civil service in London. They are working frantically on no deal plans. His Christmas leave has been cancelled as they will be too busy. He says there will be no deal and we ARE leaving on 31st Oct.

It really is happening.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 11:54

Stop trying to credit this man with more intelligence than he actually has!

Dislike him all you wish but I think underestimating him is a mistake

OP posts:
Original poster
Bearbehind · 29/08/2019 11:55

You think the Lib Dems will vote for the WA?

If it’s that of no deal 10 days before Halloween then yes

OP posts:
Xenia · 29/08/2019 11:56

I am pretty certain we will be leavingo n 31 Oct. I voted remain but accept the referendum result and the withdrawal agreement which MPs rejected 3 times is the least worst option. However MPs are choosing not to agree it and forcing us into a no deal.

MerryChristmasHarry · 29/08/2019 12:07

I dont know familycourt, whenever one is called.

So OP what he wants is a majority. He can't admit he's not that arsed about Brexit and in particular doesnt want a No Deal as it would be disastrous, because that's his support base. He also cannot preside over us crashing out, because that's his career over with once it tanks the economy. There are potentially a lot of votes to be had in being able to say he tried to stand up to the EU but was hamstrung by those nasty MPs and unelected just like me then judges.

It's awful, but if you think of it in the context of being about personal and party interests first, there's your logic. Either leaving with the WA or having to revoke due to traitorous remainers both work well for him. Better than No Deal would.

KUGA · 29/08/2019 12:08

Dont shoot the messenger but I think Boris is going to be a brilliant Prime Minister. I didnt always feel like this I can tell you.
What will be will be.
We don`t have input so may as well turn off to it.

waterrat · 29/08/2019 12:10

It's absolutely nothing like buying a house. If we leave with no deal WE WILL HAVE NO HOUSE TO LIVE IN. It's like if you try to bargain but if you don't get what you want you will be the one (not the other party) who ends up homeless and losing everything you own.

My family are civil servants. Truly - there is no masterplan guys - there is no hidden plan to fix this. Civil servants are PANICKING like the rest of us.

Yaflamingalah · 29/08/2019 12:13

Are you saying he's playing chicken with the EU to bully them into giving him what he wants? That would be incredibly risky, unethical and idiotic, even for Boris

Of course that is what he is doing. How else do you go into hard negotiations? Theresa May's problem was that she was showing all her cards from the outset.

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