To think there will be riots?

[Anoni]

Announced on the news that boris johnson may suspend parliament to reduce the chance of mps being able to block a no deal brexit allowing him to democratically force the uk to leave the EU.

Am i wrong in thinking if this goes ahead there may be serious protests and maybe even riots in london and all across the country to force the governments hand?

You can’t just vote again. It’s not how it works! For example, every time we vote in a general election most of them tell fibs and over promise, we don’t demand a new vote every time a party is caught lying about stuff. I mean there would be a vote every other day otherwise!

Different question. Revoke or Leave with no Deal. Unlike the previous referendum, now we can vote on what’s actually on the table. Isn’t that pretty much what JRM suggested?

Which is why it should never have gone to a people’s vote. The electorate simply weren’t qualified to vote if basing a choice on lies.

Soooo we need to make the best of it and have the most informed and accurate fresh referendum we can.

It is the only way the country and parliament can be united.

This is Lidington's explanation this morning about why proroguing is a serious matter for our democracy:

*There’s a big difference between what happens in a parliamentary recess and a prorogation of Parliament because all parliamentary activity shuts down including committees. With a prorogation, if I put down a question to minister that is guillotined, it just falls away.”

“We are approaching a really important deadline, we’ve got a big negotiation with the European Union. And we’ve got a deadline of the end of October, which could lead to a no deal. And we need to know more about the government’s preparations for that scenario and more about the negotiations as they continue because our constituents will be affected by those decisions.

“Real people want answers and what’s happening under this proposal is parliament is being gagged. And people won’t be able to ask questions and hold ministers to account. I think that is wrong*

There's a difference between politicians' lies and outright fraud in election terms, @Trimummy3. In this case what has been found is outright fraud. The government's own lawyers admitted that if conduct of this type had happened in an election, the result of that election would have to be set aside. The only reason that didn't happen here is that, as it was an advisory vote, the result is not binding.

Some of the “remainers” on here who are embarrassed like carrot have become remarkably adept at blowing that dog whistle.

I think it’s sad that people who voted Remain are now champions of “no deal” due to embarrassment.

You can’t just vote again. It’s not how it works! For example, every time we vote in a general election most of them tell fibs and over promise, we don’t demand a new vote every time a party is caught lying about stuff. I mean there would be a vote every other day otherwise!

We can vote again and do vote again every five years so that the government can be held to account and bad decisions amended or reversed. THAT is democracy in action.
3 years down the line after the ref and we're approaching the length of a term. And it's already a disaster.
Brexit is a huge decision which can't be so easily reversed (once carried through, esp as no deal brexit) as tax rates and the like; all the more reason to involve the people and their representatives at this crucial stage.

I agree that the country is deeply divided. I believe what would be helpful is:

• a prorogue if leaving the EU for a considerable time

• a new election with parties ejected with a clear manifesto on Brexit

• An step-by-step implement of that policy, with clarity and collaboration of others and checks and balances out together by the opposition , of the party that manages to achieve majority.

Sadly this presumes some form of collaborative will, and not being slaves to party politics. Think about it. The Conservative party had scrapped a majority in 2017. If the approach had been collaborative within the party, and, as possible, with the opposition, we could have had a deal and an orderly exit.

But TM's own inflexibility, the internecine divisions of the Conservative party, and the ineffectuality of the opposition have created a deeply polarised situation.

The situation is worsened by poverty and the continued policies of austerity and the fact that some politicians are using the country's crisis for their own political gain. And the influence of the tabloid press.

When there had been such an impasse in history, sadly, the outcome has not been a rational solution of the problem but some form of violence, or dictatorship, and more violence.

Yes, there will be riots. Maybe not this week or the next but I believe, sadly, that violence will come.

@moo5ele55

"We face years of a divided parliament. You can’t base anything on lies."

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

Oh jesus wept. The whole of fucking politics is and always has been based on lies!

You're hilarious to read now, and your replies keep coming. How dead is that horse?

It’s embarrassing and their behaviour - and that of the EU - would probably tip me to vote Leave this time should another referendum be held.

I never understand why people blame the EU. Did anyone seriously expect them to roll over and give us anything we chose to demand? If they really based their votes on that then really you have to question their fitness to have the vote. Of course the EU were going to protect their interests, and in particular they have every right to regard the status of the Irish border as being of vital importance. None of that can conceivably in itself justify a Leave vote.

The whole of fucking politics is and always has been based on lies!

Way too simplistic. And the point is that, if a government is shown to be operating solely on the basis of lies, we have the option of getting rid of it sooner or later. We won't have the option of getting back into the EU as soon as Johnson's airy assurances that it's all going to be absolutely fine are exposed.

Except with politics you get a fresh go every 4 years to put the lies right.

We won’t with this. I don’t really find that hysterical.

"Oh jesus wept. The whole of fucking politics is and always has been based on lies"

Actually, no. Gladstone did not lie. Disraeli did not lie. Many others did not lie. Your attitude is ignorant and badly informed and you cannot tell the difference between different interpretations and the art of persuasion (which is what politics is) and an outward lie. But, you know, keep going measuring the world with coffee spoons.

Moo5ele55

With your holier than thou attitude and I have as much chance as voting remain as the Eton boys etc proves my point exactly about some of the remainers. You HAVE to know better than anyone else.

In fact not only did I vote remain but I only know of 3 who woted leave ( or at least admitted it) but listening to the crap on here I really do believe the leave vote would have a higher majority.
Mostly because of goady fuckers like your good self

Yes when leavers (despite claiming to have voted remain) say "if there was another vote leave would still win" I always think if they were really so confident another vote would have been had by now! Certainly I suspect a major leave person would have Commissioned and opinion poll on same! But no.

I have communicated with many people on the subject online and in real life I've come across quite a few leavers who've changed their minds - not ONE remainer who has.

I am always heavily sceptical on places like mn where name changing or multiple accounts and where I don't recognise the username and can mean someone can CLAIM to have voted a certain way without that being verifiable but changed their minds, mainly because it's not reflected in what I'm seeing in real life.

Yes I have also people who voted leave in real life and still want to leave. I don't know anyone who wants no deal.

"You can’t just vote again. It’s not how it works! For example, every time we vote in a general election most of them tell fibs and over promise, we don’t demand a new vote every time a party is caught lying about stuff. I mean there would be a vote every other day otherwise!" Actually that's EXACTLY how democracy works. We don't hold one general election and never hold another! And if a party/MP was caught out having majorly deceived the electorate or let them down in some other way I think you'll find there often ARE calls for an election. There's been elections forced by votes of no confidence, or where certain issues have left a govt in a precarious position and they've hoped an election would show they had more support than they appeared to (which often backfires) so actually yes voting more than once IS normal and part of our democracy.

"Different question. Revoke or Leave with no Deal. Unlike the previous referendum, now we can vote on what’s actually on the table. Isn’t that pretty much what JRM suggested?" Exactly! So many leavers - again online and real life - have admitted they had no idea that things like food supply would be affected by brexit. What exactly they DID think would happen I can't imagine.

"Of course the EU were going to protect their interests, and in particular they have every right to regard the status of the Irish border as being of vital importance. None of that can conceivably in itself justify a Leave vote." Absolutely! The sheer arrogance of many leave voters in thinking the "eu need us more than we need them, they'll give us a good deal" utter crap! They DON'T need us and we have sod all leverage! Anyone with half an ounce of common sense and not stuck in an imperial Victorian mindset knows that!

The electorate simply weren’t qualified to vote if basing a choice on lies.

This really gets my back up. So, basically if you voted leave you are someone who is completely illiterate and do not have a brain cell to make a decision based on your own opinions.

Most of my family and friends voted Leave. Every person I know who voted L is degree educated at least and works in the City of London or owns their own business. They probably laughed at the sign on the bus. A couple of them are private bankers earning half a mill a year.

To say that all Leave voters are dim and thick and now that they have woken up to their idiocy would change their vote. I think you will find some of them are even more resolute than before.

There was a poll yesterday asking did Boris Johnson do the right thing was interesting 82% agreed with Boris in Wales ?...................www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/asked-13700-people-boris-johnson-16827227

A couple of them are private bankers earning half a mill a year.

I bet they made a fortune yesterday shorting sterling.

The electorate simply weren’t qualified to vote

Absolutely agree with that bit, well, very very few of them. I think the people who believe they were qualified to vote and understood all the issues (unless they were experts) absolutely definitely weren't qualified to vote because they didn't even understand the scale of what they were being asked. This applies to both Leave and Remain btw.

Funny, because only 27% of people on YouGov this what BJ has done is acceptable.

yougov.co.uk/daily/subscribe/

No Adrenalin not just leavers not being qualified to vote but everybody on both sides and now it transpires leaders of the sides involved who hadn’t even worked out what Brexit would look like.

You aren’t qualified to vote if you don’t know what you’re voting for and are lied to about the facts. All of us leave and remain.

So let’s be clear here. If you see something you believe to be fundamentally wrong, flawed and damaging being done to your country, you would let that happen unopposed because you are embarassed?

Embarassment is a killer

But its very much like those people who say they voted reman who read a mean comment directed at leavers on here and if they vote again it will definitely be for leave cos of mean!

(There have been mean comments on mumsnet from both ends....but its fucking stupid to change your vote because some random was mean!)

Well @Moo5ele55 one could argue that, as we are in the EU when one voted to remain in the EU they knew what they voted for, as they voted for something that we have experience in, for the status quo.

Leave was a gamble that looks like every day more and more unlikely to pay off.

Outside of this forum, IRL, I hear many leavers being distressed, and changed their mind when they realised that that promised road to Heaven wasn't as paved with gold as they thought.

Most (not all) Leavers I know seem to have doubled down on their views. Some started off quite mild, Norway+, soft Brexit people, they have slowly been moved further and further to the extreme end. I do fear where we will actually end up. When Brexit happens and is shit, who will they blame then? What will be the next step for them? I would bet my house they won't blame the lies politicians told them, they will be stored on by the same politicians to go further.

Advocates of 'no deal' /'keeping no deal on the table' - you do understand that we are talking about withdrawal not a 'trade deal' with the EU?
That has to be agreed after withdrawal, if we leave without a WA we are throwing away most of our negotiatiating position.

'any negotiator knows' that walking away should be an option but it has to be a credible option for it to be anything other than grandstanding. Unless we revoke we need a trade deal with the EU - leaving without a WA hands our cards over to the EU.