To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

They will either be using sex as a synonym for gender, or the sorts of physical things that can be changed.

How does one change gender?

They will either be using sex as a synonym for gender, or the sorts of physical things that can be changed

Does a primary age kid get the distinction between sex and gender, when the actual UK government and many many institutions, and agencies, and universities, and charities clearly don't?

What do you mean physical things that can be changed? You mean clothes?

How do we teach sex education, pregnancy avoidance etc, if we use the word sex to mean gender?

Why do we have to accept someone changling the meanings of words to suit themselves d so endangering others?

Why should the word sex need to mean different things depending on which animal group is being referred to?

Sex has a meaning and is chromosomally defined. It’s not a rose. I can’t tell the doctor I’d like a smear test because I am a tea towel.

OP, it’s “monchat who has taken what she has seen in one or two schools, extrapolated it to the whole of the UK and concluded that there’s nothing to worry about.*

One or two schools ? You've totally made that up. Why?

I don't have experience of every school, obviously, but I do have children at 2 schools and family and friends with children at many other schools. I also have quite a few teachers, teaching assistants and a headteacher in my family and friends. Many of them share concerns about Mermaids etc but none of them have taught or seen gender ideology being taught as fact in schools.

^^
What do you mean physical things that can be changed? You mean clothes?

I was thinking more of body parts and hormones perhaps. No-one thinks you can change chromosomes. That isn't what anyone who talks about 'changing sex' means.

Tolerance

Ah..so when people talk about changing sex they are not actually talk8ng about changing sex?

So what exactly are they talking about changing?

Please use words only as defined in Oxford English Dictionary

I was thinking more of body parts and hormones perhaps

So you think primary kids can understand the concept of human sterilisation? Primary?

Really?

If i change my body my weight training, do I become gender Male?

If I then pierce my ears will I become a woman again?

Many of them share concerns about Mermaids etc but none of them have taught or seen gender ideology being taught as fact in schools.

The recent consultations in England and Wales about SRE teaching included 'gender identity' as something that should be taught to all children. Even if this is not being taught at the schools you know at the moment, it may soon be a compulsory part of the curriculum.

Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way.

Draft statutory guidance on RSE and health education for England

I hope you participated in the consultation for your part of the UK to keep this out of schools.

Even if this is not being taught at the schools you know at the moment, it may soon be a compulsory part of the curriculum.

If it's taught as fact, I will then have a problem with it. If it's taught as 'some people think, feel, believe.....' I won't.

If you think 'gender identity' is going to be taught as a belief system rather than fact, you haven't been paying attention.

One or two schools? You’ve totally made that up. Why?

Because I asked if you work in a LA or the DfE and would therefore be able to say this with some confidence of it being representative of a large number of schools:

In the primary schools I know, gender hasn't even been mentioned.

But you didn’t answer. So I took a guess. Apologies if you were referring to several dozen schools in a local authority or all the schools in the UK.

So no schools, no schools at all are being influenced and going down this route? m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4g5O8w28U

taught the facts ... about ... gender identity if only (i.e. that it boils down to a belief system) ... and what OldCrone said.

I'm very new to the debate and my brain has nearly spontaneously combusted in understanding it- but when trans people say Trans Women Are Women etc they genuinely believe it to be fact and want it to be taught as fact in schools.

I don't think it's been mentioned and can't easily make links, but Google for 'Allsorts toolkit'. It gets a lot of recommendations and is very clear in its breezy exhortations to school staff to remember that 'trans girls/boys are girls boys. Also, as OP has mentioned, that it's perfectly in order to teach as fact, that 'some, but not all boys, have a penis and testicles and some, but not all girls, have a vulva and vagina'.

If it's taught as fact, I will then have a problem with it.

Of course it’s taught as fact!

Here is a snippet from the Allsorts Toolkit promoted by Mermaids and Stonewall and endorsed by the DfE:

“Gender concerns your inner sense of self and how you choose to express yourself.”

“Children and young people may question their gender identity for a range of reasons and this may not mean they are definitely trans or will go on to transition. The important thing is to validate the young person’s identity as it is now and support any changes that may arise as they come to explore their gender identity further.”

Does that sound anything like “Some people believe”?

X-post, cwg1

Here’s a link:

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/East%20Sussex%20schools%20transgender%20toolkit.pdf

Why is everyone on this thread so transphobic?!?

It's really quite simple, and yes, I'm sure children can understand it. Some people's gender doesn't correlate to their sex. These people also deserve to be treated with respect, compassion and understanding.

What is so upsetting about that?

Some people's gender doesn't correlate to their sex.

Please define 'gender' and 'sex'.

It's really quite simple, and yes, I'm sure children can understand it. Some people's gender doesn't correlate to their sex. These people also deserve to be treated with respect, compassion and understanding

Agree, but it always comes back to "can't literally change sex" etc - er, did anyone say they could?
It's what you said, but I think people pretend not to get it on purpose.

Because a boy/man who feels they should be a girl/woman isn’t actually a girl/woman who should than have access to female spaces, sports etc - children (and everyone else( shouldn’t be indoctrinated that this is fact and must be accepted that gender identity must be prioritized over biological sex.

Why is everyone on this thread so transphobic?!? It's really quite simple, and yes, I'm sure children can understand it. Some people's gender doesn't correlate to their sex. These people also deserve to be treated with respect, compassion and understanding. What is so upsetting about that?

I agree nothing is upsetting about that. I don’t like some of the teaching from Mermaids eg the gender spectrum showing a thin pink person in a dress at the most “female” end and wouldn’t want regressive bullshit like that taught to children. So I guess to me it does depend exactly what is being taught.

Please define 'gender' and 'sex'

Oh FFS lol, see? Cross post.

Sex - your biological sex
Gender - more of your identity, inner self
Nobody's said they were the same.
You probably know that already though?

As an aside, not aimed at you in particular, why is it such a bad thing to teach kids to be tolerant and accepting of all?
I don't get it. Some act like just letting your children know about stuff like this means they might "catch trans" or something.
It'll be age appropriate. Like some on the thread have already said.

Absolutely we must be compassionate and understanding.

Going to the example I have of what would happen if a trans girl in high school wanted to use girls changing rooms for PE. My DD could be extremely uncomfortable with this but according to guidance out there could be told "tough luck, you need to be inclusive ".

Doesn't she deserve compassion, respect and understanding? Am I "transphobic " or a "bigot " for having this concern?

This isn't an acceptable risk for me.

I don’t think you can “catch trans” roses, but I think if you teach boys gender theory, then boys who like dolls and pink things (which has no impact on if they are trans or not) might find that confusing.

I don’t want any link being taught to children about gender stereotypes. Not because of concerns about transgender people, but because I believe it is harmful. Teach children that trans people who haven’t a female body but feel like they are a man (or vice versa) but leave the horseshit about spectrums of gender out of it.