To think my brother is a total arsehole

[mumsey2be]

So background - my parents divorced when i was 10 and brother 8. mother was single parent and TBH worked very hard and thus was not really around to be a good parent. Also lives in her own world so somewhat emotionally distant. I coped with this by throwing self into studies and throwing self at boys. Brother got expelled from everywhere, stole loads of money, broke into people's homes and eventually ended up in prison.

Fast forward. I am 40 he is 38. Mum still a difficult person, no question. But she is our mum. Brother has 2 sons, third now on the way. Hasn't had a job in 5 years. Sends his wife out to clean toilets and run her manicure business while he gets stoned and scrounges off my parents. She is now 8 months pregnant. The council have told them they will not rehouse them from their 2 bed flat.

I am currently NC with them both. Love nephews but fundamentally don't agree with brother's lifestyle and sense of entitlement.

Normally, they don't speak to my mum or take her calls because they find her annoying.

But this summer Mum sold her house in London after many years. It was a massive job to help her pack everything up, get sorted- cope with her anxiety about it all, ship everything off to various parts of the globe. I am pregnant with my first after many years of trying and it was ever so stressful. I handle all mums admin etc for her. Brother did not even come round to pack a plate.

Very kindly Mum has offered both of us enough money from the sale to buy a house! Strangely, they are now being all nice and friendly to mum.

She has been staying with us while her overseas home gets sorted - she does drive me crackers in ways i won't explain now but anyway... she came home last night and told me my brother had shouted at her, in front of his 13 year old and 9 year old for not giving him money 'in the here and now' - she is willing to pay for the house but not to give him cash because of his lifestyle. He says she should.

WTF!WTF! the lazy cunt is getting a house with no mortgage, nothing, has a third child on the way, does fuck all to support his family and, in front of his children, tells her she should be giving him more money!

I am apoplectic. I sent him a furious email. No doubt his righteous wife will reply on his behalf as she is his personal secretary and loves to defend him. And her mother has also rung my mum ( she comes from long line of unemployed on the dole types) and demanded that mum give them 'more money'. WTF WTF! What to do? The shameless entitlement leaves me breathless!

AIBU?

PS: My dad was also difficult. Bad temper etc. I am not in denial at all that everything had a profound effect on my bro but i am sorry i do not have 'a shocking lack of awareness of trauma'. We have all done everything we can for him and he is an endless pit of wants. He cant work, doesn't like any stress or pressure, just blanks you if he doesn't get what he wants. Am i traumatised and over responsible, - probably - but this is really not the major factor here,

Excuse me for a bit off to pickup keys to new place!

Also, giving them money now means spending on things like giving a 13 year old a £700 iPhone - so they cant afford anything but yet they spend on things like that!!That's why mum is not willing to give him money.

He did the same thing to my father last year - told him he could not see the kids unless he gave him £10k which he did and which they have blown on nothing at all. They didn't even have the manners to follow up a little to share what they did with the money.

INeedAFlerken
I do have to love how this is all 'mum's' fault. Divorce left her raising two children on her own, and worked hard to do so, while it sounds like dad pissed off ... and yet everything is her fault with her adult son's failures and drug problems.

Everything is always the mother's fault. 😒 Or whichever woman happens to be nearby. 😒

If I was your mum I'd give them fuck all and put the money in a trust type thing for the 3 boys to get when they are 18.

He did the same thing to my father last year - told him he could not see the kids unless he gave him £10k which he did and which they have blown on nothing at all. They didn't even have the manners to follow up a little to share what they did with the money.

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. Brother and SiL as bad as each other :(

This thread is so depressing as it just highlights the negative affect of how having sudden money can divide a family. I feel sorry for your whole family tbh.
I also don't like the idea of nieces and nephews struggling through life until this future inheritance becomes available, it's not their fault.

This isn’t about sudden wealth

This is about one mans attitude towards his family, wife and children.

He has no intention of providing for himself or his kids.

@Bravelurker not really sudden - and we already weren't speaking before then.

Hi @mumsey2be, what I meant by sudden wealth was that since your DM has sold her house, there is this sudden money available that your DB and inlaws have designs on. And to their mind, can't see why they can't access cash now because they are unable to recognise the long term benefit.

I can see why winning the lottery (I know this is not a lottery win) kills family relationships.

Trust fund sounds like the best bet. If they have a council property, being responsible for a house may make them worse off.

I would do a trust for all the children (living orvyet to be born) that they can access their portion of at 25 and have money able to be released beforehand for reasonable expenses like uni, dental treatment etc. I would get a professional trustee to take the emotional strain out of family hands even if it will cost more.

I do have to love how this is all 'mum's' fault. Divorce left her raising two children on her own, and worked hard to do so, while it sounds like dad pissed off ... and yet everything is her fault with her adult son's failures and drug problems. Why exactly? Where is the responsibility of the dad who pissed off and left them in this scenario...

That's just what I thought Flerken.

Poor woman, working like a trojan to keep two kids, one of whom seems to have been an arsehole from birth, coming home knackered, exhausted and worried to cook, clean and make sure the two of them were fed, dressed and had everything they needed for school.

I can see how she could well have found it difficult to spend "quality" time with her children - OP seems to understand this - she would have liked a more affectionate mother, but realised that there were pressures on her that affected the relationship. OP's brother was a self-entitled twat and hasn't changed.

I do have to love how this is all 'mum's' fault. Divorce left her raising two children on her own, and worked hard to do so, while it sounds like dad pissed off ... and yet everything is her fault with her adult son's failures and drug problems. Why exactly

Because raising children is more than providing the financial aspects.

The OP has already said that her mother was emotionally distant .

All the single working mothers I know (and I know a lot) make time for their children. They make sure their mental well being is talked through, know if something is troubling their children. They make time.

I don't believe that this mother didnt have any time for her children because she was working all the time

But @oliversmammy what's done is done. She cant turn back time. She did what she could and ok by most standards it wasn't good enough. But this convo isnt really about that - its just background and context on where we are now.

@SchadenfreudePersonified thanks for understanding. She wasnt there for us - it was hard, but such is life. And my response is that i believe it is still best to have a relationship with her now - she did get us through school, teach us to cook, clothe us, feed us, she just couldn't give what she didnt have to give.

I was answering the bit about always blaming the mothers.

What she is doing now is doing exactly what she seems to have done in the past. Not get her hands dirty and throw money at the situation.

What is needed is counselling for both of them and her to take responsibility for her ds's upbringing and why he thinks the world/his DM owes him a living.

Until that is sorted which by the sounds of it, she is moving abroad leaving a trail of emotional destruction in her wake that will never be brought under control and her son will continue live blaming others for his upbringing and the cycle of neglect will continue down the generations.

Just because something happened in your childhood doesn't mean when you are an adult you can get over it because you are all grown up. If you could there wouldn't be any historic charges of child abuse.

If your mother didn't have the ability to care for children not just financially then why have them

I do know one parent who sounds exactly like your mother.
She thinks it is normal now her child is at uni that they only contact her at Christmas.

She was genuinely surprised that her DC was in constant contact with her mother (the grandmother) and her sister and brother (the aunt and uncle) and she visited them regularly.
Friends attitude is she got them to 18 so that is her job over.

People told her when they were growing up that the way she treated her children was neglectful but all she could point out was what everything cost

Fortunately they have other family to keep them on track bit if they didn't I could see something similar happening to them

What she is doing now is doing exactly what she seems to have done in the past. Not get her hands dirty and throw money at the situation.

I think this sounds remarkably harsh. I can only imagine that you haven't had to work and worry and count every penny. It can leave you too exhausted even to think.

I'm not saying OP's mother behaved well, but I'm sure she tried her best, and she is now offering her children substantial sums to ensure that they don't have to worry about having somewhere to live.

She doesn't have to do this - she could keep the lot for herself, but she isn't.

YANBU. He is a total arsehole and isn’t thinking straight either.
I’m not 100% sure of the rules as I don’t claim housing benefit myself but if your mum gives him a certain amount (maybe around £20,000?) wont he lose his housing?

Much better to put it in a trust for the kids for his benefit, even if he can’t see it that way.

SchadenfreudePersonified

Harsh but true.

I may not have ever been a single parent but we have gone through some bad times financially but I always talked to my children every day to reassure them over anything that might be bothering them.

I do know a lot of single parents who work multiple jobs and have come out of violent relationships who are in a worse situation to the ops mother. They would never be able to afford to buy a house in London.

They all make the time to talk to their children at the end of the day. They know that talking each day and discussing all their children's ups and downs, their fears and hopes and just what has happened that day even for just 10 minutes before bed is something that you do just to put your child at ease.

The thing is this mother by her own DDS account wasn't the type to look after her children's welfare beyond what she could buy

They all make the time to talk to their children at the end of the day. They know that talking each day and discussing all their children's ups and downs, their fears and hopes and just what has happened that day even for just 10 minutes before bed is something that you do just to put your child at ease.

Bloomin' heck. I don't think I ever did any of that 😮 The expectations of mothers are off the charts. All I ever did was sit on the sofa and watch TV with them 😮 Neither of them grew up to be drug addicts.

@mumsey2be Your mum really wants to sit down with a solicitor and have a good look into things, for a start, how likely is your brother to take the house and sell it for the money? If he is as selfish as you make out I doubt he really wants the house because he has a council place!

If I was your DM I would buy the house in her name, put it over into DB & SIL name but have it written up that the house cannot be sold and must be passed down to his DC when they pass away!

Thats what my DH's GP did when they passed away.

Also definitely leaving any other money from her will to his DC in a trust fund till at least 21/25!! He doesn't deserve that money 1 bit.

I hate threads like this, being someones child does not automatically entitle you to your parents cash when they die!!

Juells

I have always had a catch up every day. Even now they are teens.

This week I was discussing what Ds would be doing in the year coming and trying to make the logistics work and we have come up with a plan so he went to bed happy because we have been discussing what to do and going through the options for months on and off.

Dd again just getting to know what she is up to for the coming week, she works so many jobs that get given out at the last minute that sometimes it is hard to keep up with her.

My friends when their dc were little would make time for their children because they knew what a big thing in a child’s mind it was going through a divorce or acrimonious split.
Whilst their fathers might have been dreadful husbands and fathers to that child that man was still their father and part of them and despite everything they still loved him.
Those chats meant that each night they went to bed happy and their fears allayed.

If you don’t talk to your children each day how do you know what is going on in their lives. How do you not know they are getting bullied or falling in with the wrong crowd or just not happy with something that they have built up to a big thing when you can diffuse the situation

I am so surprised that parents don’t do this

she did get us through school, teach us to cook, clothe us, feed us

But that’s the minimum that a parent should do. Children don’t ask to be born. My dd19 doesn’t owe me - I chose to have her. What about nurturing, listening, loving your children unconditionally?

As much as I understand your attitude towards your brother, @mumsey2be, I really think you’re in denial about your upbringing and your parents. “Well, we weren’t sexually abused” as if that in itself is great or even adequate parenting. That’s fine if that’s your coping mechanism but it’s not how your brother sees things and I think you need to find some empathy for him, even if you don’t agree with how he lives his life.

Neglect and abuse - whether emotional, physical or sexual - is awful parenting. Simple as. As I said before, you can choose to set boundaries and refuse to deal with your SIL. You can advise your Mum. That’s about it, though.

she did get us through school, teach us to cook, clothe us, feed us

But as you pointed out in your op this isn't strictly true.

Your db was expelled. Shouldn't that have shown there was a problem years ago.

Did your mother not try to get to the bottom of why. Not what he physically did but the reasons why he got himself into that position and why he felt the need to do something.

When my children were growing up their df was largely absent through his work so I put in place other male role models in the form of teachers in Ecas.

Whilst you had the role model of your mother where was your dbs role model

As IHateUncleJamie said what your mother did was the bare minimum in some areas but was down right neglectful in others.

Neglect does show through at some stage.

I would hazard a guess the reason why your db is asking for money from your mother is because he sees it as she owes him for the childhood he had and the only "currency" your mother understands iss

Is money

(Phone playing up