To think my brother is a total arsehole

[mumsey2be]

So background - my parents divorced when i was 10 and brother 8. mother was single parent and TBH worked very hard and thus was not really around to be a good parent. Also lives in her own world so somewhat emotionally distant. I coped with this by throwing self into studies and throwing self at boys. Brother got expelled from everywhere, stole loads of money, broke into people's homes and eventually ended up in prison.

Fast forward. I am 40 he is 38. Mum still a difficult person, no question. But she is our mum. Brother has 2 sons, third now on the way. Hasn't had a job in 5 years. Sends his wife out to clean toilets and run her manicure business while he gets stoned and scrounges off my parents. She is now 8 months pregnant. The council have told them they will not rehouse them from their 2 bed flat.

I am currently NC with them both. Love nephews but fundamentally don't agree with brother's lifestyle and sense of entitlement.

Normally, they don't speak to my mum or take her calls because they find her annoying.

But this summer Mum sold her house in London after many years. It was a massive job to help her pack everything up, get sorted- cope with her anxiety about it all, ship everything off to various parts of the globe. I am pregnant with my first after many years of trying and it was ever so stressful. I handle all mums admin etc for her. Brother did not even come round to pack a plate.

Very kindly Mum has offered both of us enough money from the sale to buy a house! Strangely, they are now being all nice and friendly to mum.

She has been staying with us while her overseas home gets sorted - she does drive me crackers in ways i won't explain now but anyway... she came home last night and told me my brother had shouted at her, in front of his 13 year old and 9 year old for not giving him money 'in the here and now' - she is willing to pay for the house but not to give him cash because of his lifestyle. He says she should.

WTF!WTF! the lazy cunt is getting a house with no mortgage, nothing, has a third child on the way, does fuck all to support his family and, in front of his children, tells her she should be giving him more money!

I am apoplectic. I sent him a furious email. No doubt his righteous wife will reply on his behalf as she is his personal secretary and loves to defend him. And her mother has also rung my mum ( she comes from long line of unemployed on the dole types) and demanded that mum give them 'more money'. WTF WTF! What to do? The shameless entitlement leaves me breathless!

AIBU?

In a trust would be best

what has he ever done to help her?

It’s not a child’s job to help their parents. Children with a normal, loving, non-traumatic upbringing do help their parents because they love them and have been loved in return. Children don’t ask to be born and they shouldn’t “owe” their parents.

In no way am I excusing your brother’s behaviour or sense of entitlement. Not at all. He should not have shouted at your Mother and his MIL needs to mind her own business (although YABU about calling them “unemployed, on the dole types”).

What I am saying is that the two of you may have been treated differently as children and his experiences might have been different to yours so have effected him differently. The “children seeing brutal murders” thing is irrelevant; abuse and neglect are not a competition. All it takes to develop Complex PTSD can be a lack of love and nurturing in your formative years with no “safe” adult to turn to and if you are not emotionally intelligent or have the mental resources to seek therapy then spiralling into a cycle of self sabotage is not at all uncommon. Your Mother may or may not feel some guilt for your childhoods and this could be why she wants your brother to have the money as opposed to his children.

I would suggest encouraging your Mother to put your brother’s share of the money into trust for your nephews but ultimately it’s her money and you’re not her parent. I would suggest she blocks the MIL as it’s nothing to do with her. You can tell your brother that you will only deal with him and not your SIL and then I would back off.

YANBU to be angry but ultimately you have chosen to help your Mum and still have a relationship with her - if you can understand that your brother has a different view of your Mother and try to respect that, you might feel less angry.

Looking at this from SIL pint of view, could it be that if they are in receipt of housing benefit, then getting given a house won’t help her day to day with your DB not bringing in a wage. She is going to have to work harder maintaining a larger more expensive home. Your DB will take the credit for providing a guaranteed roof over the family, be even more useless.
Is it possible your SIL’s mum is concerned about the unintended effect on her daughter of this very generous gift from your DM and feels that more cash in the family would help a lot more?

I suggest doing a Will ASAP regardless.

I have just had a previously poor relative inherit a small fortune in the last few years.He recently died unexpectedly and the fall out from not having a Will is unbelievable. His appointment with the solicitor was booked for next month. He knew exactly where he wanted his money to go and it’s going exactly where he didn’t now.
It seems most people are twats about money feckless or deserving.

Is it possible your SIL’s mum is concerned about the unintended effect on her daughter of this very generous gift from your DM and feels that more cash in the family would help a lot more?

I agree - as I said in a pp, the SiL is working and doing her best but not getting much credit for that. She's the only one that the grandchildren have to depend on, so her security is more important than the OP's brother, who seems to be just a cocklodger.

Definitely get your mum to seek specialist advice from a solicitor who specialises in family trusts. The safest way is for her to create a trust, naming the beneficiaries (the grandchildren), appointing executors (one professional at least, the other could be you or a trusted family friend). The trust could buy a house for the benefit of the grandchildren. They, and their caregivers could live in it but not have the ability to borrow against it or sell it without permission of the trust. (ie if they wanted to relocate).

My sister in law inherited some money that she has just burnt through - she has MH issues and a mistaken belief that there's a magic money tree... I dread to think what will happen when she's run out of money. Don't let the same thing happen to your mum's hard earned money.

Wouldn't it be better for them for your DM to buy the house in her name and they live there and with a proviso they pay the bills and keep the house in a good state of repair.

I don't see how giving them a house will benefit them if by the sounds of it they cannot manage mone ATM and if they become home owners their benefits will reduce and their bills will go up.

On that reason I would say there was going to be no house as they cannot afford to be given one.

The nephews might be lovely now but without a solid role model they will probably end up similar to your brother.

Interested to know how the wife's mother thinks your DM should pay when her useless sil does nothing but sends her DD out to work.

Your DM though is the architect of all this ultimately. Whilst she might have been working very hard thinking she was providing financial stability your 8 year old brother was left without a father and a mother and suspect that the expulsions were more cries for help.

On some ways your db is still that list little boy of 8 years old and still craving his parents attention and the only help on offer is still financial. Almost like your mother is buying you both off for being a shitty mother.

I would be making the money available on the understanding he has regular therapy for what has gone on in the past and only make any monies available after at least a year of him attending these sessions and getting clear of drugs.

He might not like it but someone had to undo the damage

She could buy the house in a trust and give brother right to live there but not to own it. I think this would protect any benefits as well, for what that's worth. She should see a solicitor to set it up though, to make sure there are no unexpected tax consequences

Firstly, huge congratulations on your pregnancy, that is wonderful news

EileenAlanna and RB68 have already said what I was thinking...

The house can be in your mum's name which brother and wife can live in rent-free and on your mum's death, the house is bequeathed equally to his children on the condition that brother and wife inhabit rent-free until their death, at which time house can be sold and money split between their children.

Another option is to buy the house in your name so you have oversight of it until your death (i.e. they don't move to social housing and rent out the house etc.) The same lifetime inhabitation conditions can apply until their deaths, at which point their children inherit.

Your solicitor will need to check the validity and authority of such covenants and check for possible loopholes and potential abuse of the covenant such as renting out the property. I think plenty of conditions can be written into the will, but make sure that they are enforceable / watertight.

Your solicitor alone should be dealing with your brother (not his wife, her mother, etc.) from this point onwards.

Your mum could also leave you a trust fund to ensure their children are looked after in terms of uni fees etc. Maybe buy a slightly lesser house for them in order to balance looking after their children.

I think you are to be commended for maintaining a positive relationship and ensuring her assets are dealt with fairly between you and your brother

I agree with everything said by summer

Good luck OP

Your mother should buy the house in her name and let your brother and his family live in it rent free but with proper contracts drawn up. It's the only way to prevent his borrowing against it and eventually losing the house. If the contracts are in place it would prove any debt he is linked to at that address are not linked to your mum.

Just to be a bit cynical. Your nieces and nephews might grow up to be just like your brother. Considering the example they have from both their parents. If your mum is only giving money to people who are deserving, she might find that her grandchildren are no longer “deserving” by the time they’re 25 (i.e. they might be dicks too). It’s a sad thought.

I feel like she should just keep the money to support herself in her old age... spend it gradually on having a nice life.

Can't say that I feel much sympathy towards your mum. As is often the case with parenting, you reap what you sow

Agree with @Cuppaand2biscuits.

Apart from anything else, if the money is put in trust for the kids their parents will probably apply huge pressure on them to shell out as soon as they gain access. That's setting up a horrible dynamic as they get older.

She needs good legal advice, I think.

Frankly, I wonder if there's any way your mum could put a house into her grandchildren's name in trust instead of your arsehole brother's name. If it's in his name, he will fail to pay council taxes or bills or take a mortgage out against the value of it and end up losing it based on what you've written here.

Alternatively, and creating WW3 no doubt, put it into your name and give him a right to live in it...

I don't know OP. But it sounds like no matter what she does, she will be literally chucking her hard-earned money in the bin if she buys him a house and puts it in his name. He will lose it.

Agreement to get a job?
Agreement to go into rehab?
Agreement to go into and stay in counselling to stay clean?

Before stumping up for a house...?

It is totally up to your mum what she does and your brother has nothing to do with you either. Let them sort it out.

You are not unreasonable to deplore your brother’s attitude.

But you are unreasonable not to acknowledge that he might have been affected by your mother’s abuse and neglect.

You are even more unreasonable (shockingly so) to say how adults respond to trauma and difficulty is a matter of choice. That comment displays a frightening lack of awareness. Your experiences of people who have witnessed their families murdered in front of them and remained resilient are, whilst awe inspiring, just that; experiences. Not everyone is naturally resilient and psychologically robust and it very rarely simply a matter of choice.

If she puts the money into trust for the children, she can make you a trustee. She can set it up so they can't touch the money themselves, but you can pay for things the trust says you can: education, education-related stuff, educational activities, etc. A how to manage money class... Perhaps towards driving lessons, first car, etc And not allow them to inherit control of any remaining lump sum until they're old enough to be firmly out of the control of their parents.

Of course her brother was affected by his childhood. But he's an adult now, and giving him £££ to piss away on drugs and a lifestyle where he literally does fuck all and keeps having kids isn't the answer.

But that's up to her mum.

My brother is an ex addict and leached off my parents for years. That wasn't my issue to deal with. He still lives with them and they don't charge him any rent ir food. He's nearly 40. That's their life, not mine.

Detach detach detach.

Argh, I have an uncle like this. Youngest of 5, and an entitled little shit. Upon the death of my grandparents he tried very hard to get a good 50% of the estate and cheat his siblings (some of whom were enabling him) out of their share. NC with most my dad's family over this. And what happened to him, might you ask? He got an equal share, pissed off on many holidays and shopping sprees, gave stupid amounts to his then gf (who pissed off as soon as the pot ran dry) and he now lives in a bedsit and is crying poverty. He then tried to take my dad to small claims court and the judge berated him quite unashamedly. This is exactly what I had predicted, hence why I was unwilling to support him having a larger share. His share of the cash would have been a very solid deposit on a house, and people were willing to help him do this by giving him extra cash if he needed it for making any house he bought comfortable. He'd lived mortgage free in my grandparents home all of his life (he's over 50), a stable home didn't seem to be his priority funnily enough (since he hasn't ever had to grow up and handle life the way his siblings have). If anything I do blame my grandma for not giving him responsibility for any bills.

Imo, as your brother grows bolder, your mother should start growing balls too. If ever there was a time to teach him some tough life lessons, why not now. She could be the biggest witch in the world, but it's still her money to give and your brother isn't legally entitled to anything just because she gave cash it to you. Good luck to her!

TBH, if I was your mother I would withdraw the offer I'd made to him and tell the idle waster to get on with it!

"Damaged by her neglect" - my arse! Damaged by a shit father, possibly - OP says her mother was "emotionally distant" but is aware that this was due to worry, exhaustion etc, providing for two children as a single parent.

Her brother seems a real twat! A true "Oh poor me!" type.

OP - your DM should kick him into touch and go NC. She has every right to dispose of any, all or none of HER money as se sees fit.

I'm not sure what the point is of the mum buying the house for her son and putting it in her name?

(Other than the family getting into debt and having to sell it...but that's not the mother's worry surely?)

At the moment they are solvent through living in subsidised council housing, benefits no doubt and his wife's earnings.

If they can live rent-free, in a house with no mortgage, it will save them money. Yes they will have to pay for bills and council tax.

Usually when feckless people are given a windfall, the best plan is to tell them that is IT- no more money, whatsoever.

If they waste their inheritance, tough luck.

All the OP can do is stand firm and help her mum to say to the brother there is no more money for him.

I do have to love how this is all 'mum's' fault. Divorce left her raising two children on her own, and worked hard to do so, while it sounds like dad pissed off ... and yet everything is her fault with her adult son's failures and drug problems. Why exactly? Where is the responsibility of the dad who pissed off and left them in this scenario...

@juells i feel sorry for my SIL too. She is actually really nice but she always defends him and speaks for him which is really annoying because she isn't my sibling - and i do have a right to tell my sibling when i think he is out of line.

@Liveinahidingplace i hear you. It actually doesn't make me mad most of the time but sometimes i just start roaring because it is so shameless.

@Lime we don't agree with one another, no one was sexually abused in my house. I was homeless at 16. Shit happens. I just disagree with your perspective and can hear that you are angry. I am angry with my mum too but everyone is human and does their best and i am not someone who would live with disowning their parent. She has good bits and infuriatingly bad bits. I have done so much to try and help my brother but he is an endless pit and it is too one sided.

Thanks everyone - lets see what options the lawyer comes up with. TBH i think my mum would be ok with the SIL taking the house or 50% in a divorce as we all feel sorry for her married to him. But she will stay - she prefers the idea of the ideal family to the reality of living with him.