To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

Why can’t you reduce your hours at work? That’s a fairly easy solution given you have free childcare at other times.

Check out a different nursery. My kids must be the only ones who would cry when their dad or grandparents would come pick them up as they wanted to stay and play at nursery. They also formed strong attachments my son more so to ladies at the nursery one particular carer was my son's absolute favourite and he would put his arms out for her as soon as he saw her. She cried on his last day ( moved him to a nursery closer to our home as his sister started preschool). Their nursery encourages parents to place a child for at least two mornings as they often struggle if in for just the one day. Your heart doesn't seem in it, so move him or ask grandparents to have him that day too.

Mental health problems have not necessarily increased over the years but are better diagnosed and there is less stigma than a few years ago with regards to them.

It's about the individual child though surely? I'd say the setting you have chosen for your son is a poor fit. Some children are possibly thriving there, some will not. My approach to chilcare has been different with both of my kids. My oldest is very outgoing and likes a busy environment with lots of company. Nursery was great for her. The perfect environment, and we chose one that did lots of outdoor play.

My youngest is more introverted, and likes to have space. She prefers quiet, structured games. We found her an older, very experienced childminder. A bit like an extra granny. For what it's worth, she's rated good not outstanding, but I've read the reports, and the reasons she's not outstanding don't bother me. Daughter's thriving there.

I think you need to consider what is the best fit for your son. Do a bit of shopping around. It can't hurt to look, can it?

Haven't RTFT yet, but AIBU to think there are an awful lot of threads popping up on Mumsnet lately desperately trying to convince little women that they should all be back at home looking after the poor darling little kiddies who just won't cope with the idea of working mothers? That basic specialisation of jobs and economies is only for the men, and women have to shoulder the burden individually and with a smile - oh, and let's not forget to look sexually enticing for the men when they get back home, otherwise the men will be fully justified when their eyes (and other things) wander elsewhere?

Perhaps not, or not intentionally, but then again...there's a lot of questioning of women's roles at the moment, but never the men's.

”I know people who have their kids in there full time. That will make a child ill.”

Ironic and goady given you send your child to a “shit nursery” and you know he’s miserable.

I didn’t send mine to nursery so no axe to grind.

DarkatendofUK. You are right. I'm convinced there's a crowd of MRAs & incels on here winding women up with these posts.

Has anybody actually reported me for being a troll yet?

I'm a very long term poster, sorry to disappoint.

How can leaving your child in an institutional environment from baby hood, for most of their waking hours, not negatively impact on them?

Are people really suggesting that consistency of care, from a main caregiver (usually the mother, lets face it) is totally irrelevant in child development? Really?

I understand that lots of people have no choice. That's the problem- we need better choices.

www.cbc.ca/life/backintimefordinner/crazy-things-we-told-housewives-in-the-1950s-1.4683987 A lot of this sounds very familiar.

The assumption running through some posts this thread that no one earning minimum wage could possibly be taking pride in their job, care about the children they look after or try to do their best is pretty fucking disgusting to me.

There's one near us that I've seen picking up the primary kids for after school club and there's absolutely no interaction with the kids - it's just tick the list and walk in a long line back to the building. I wonder how pleasant an after school club it is - and the kids I know who've gone there have described it as "crap" and "boring". I've just been looking for before and after school care for my kids - ruled it out straight away as I just didn't get any pleasant vibes about it at all. Instead mine are booked in to use the school after school club which is run by a lovely bunch of ladies and when I've had the kids in there for a quick half an hour while I have an after school meeting on occasions (the school arrange for this to be OK) - I've had a battle prising the kids out of there! I wouldn't be going back to university when I am if I wasn't confident in the childcare options I've chosen.

Not true if that's aimed at me mama
My position is that nursery workers should be much more highly paid so that they are more likely not to move on to other work.
Why are nursery OWNERS paying minimum wage? That is what is disgusting.

DS1 was FT from 9mths until starting school
he's now 11, bright, articulate, well balanced boy, does well at school, scouts and swimming, well behaved, polite, loves reading, maths, science, football and cricket
Teachers and other parents seem to like him and he generally gets on well with us and his brother.

He's not perfect - he's truly shit at tidying his room, and has the odd strop because I won't let him get Fortnite but generally he's a pretty good well adjusted kid and nursery definitely didn't make him 'ill' not mentally or physically.

I’m still waiting for you to address why you haven’t given up your job to stay home with you child and why you think it’s ok for you to leave your child in a setting you have identified as “shit”

I agree with you. I am very lucky that I am financially able to stay at home with my children (and want to).

I know several people whose kids are in full time nursery and gush about how wonderful it is for them and have had digs at me for my boys missing out on nursery. I don’t think (good) nurseries are harmful but I certainly don’t think they are beneficial

I'm a bordering on middle aged, GC feminist academic actually.

One who has the temerity to say things that people don't like and aren't fashionable.

Like, mothers matter. Women matter. Being a mother is a fundamentally female thing, has been for millennia. Saying that it is important is not misogynistic- it's celebrating a fucking important part of being a woman.

Saying that is not important in order to justify our current situation, well that is pitiful.

It's only childcare, it's a low-status, low-paid traditionally female role so of course it doesn't matter..

@Mrskeats can you cite the research linking childcare to mental health issues please. Google scholar link or name, title and publication date will do.

^venger* I was taking that as a matter of course as we are talking about childcare. Lack of attachment and good care as a small child is so important.

1 day a week isn't really enough to settle in properly at that age - I'm surprised they let you do that tbh both DC nurseries insisted on 1.5 days minimum for that reason.

Is there any way you can add a 1/2 day when he's with family 3 days after his nursery day so it's not such a long gap between sessions?

Will do cats. Have text daughter for links.

For an academic you don't seem to have much supporting evidence.

“Are people really suggesting that consistency of care, from a main caregiver (usually the mother, lets face it) is totally irrelevant in child development? Really?”

My children don’t have a main care giver though. Both their father and I split the childcare, differently at different times, and then we use childcare on top. Why would any child need only 1 attachment?

I also want to know why you won’t explain why you won’t give up work. You’re only part time and your child is in 2 different settings. You’ve created a huge inconsistency which makes no sense in the context of your posts here.

It’s always going to be harder for them when they go so infrequently. One day per week is not often enough to develop any sort of attachment with the place or people.

It's only childcare, it's a low-status, low-paid traditionally female role so of course it doesn't matter

Nobody has said that

So what choices did you have in mind aliteral? It does sound rather like making women leave the workforce and give up their economic independence.

If you want to talk about how we should be funding either men or women to look after children, and raising the status of childcare over male sexual entitlement, I'm all ears. In Finland parents can claim leave until the child is 3 and then return to their jobs.

For anyone else who thinks along my kind of lines, I've been meaning to read Susan Faludi's 'Backlash' for a while. It's another book with words that sound very relevant to our time. "Faludi argues that the backlash uses a strategy of "blaming the victim", by suggesting that the women's liberation movement itself is the cause of many of the problems alleged to be plaguing women in the late 1980s."

How can leaving your child in an institutional environment from baby hood, for most of their waking hours, not negatively impact on them?

If you're an academic you should really read more about the history of childhood and pre-20thc norms of childcare.

Or you could, you know, find better childcare for your own offspring and stop melodramatically trying to turn your own specific unhappiness with your current situation into some kind of general principle?