To think this level of over- protection is ridiculous.

[ScottishJo31]

My auntie ( single parent ) has two daughters... eldest is 31, youngest is 24, both still live at home. My auntie does everything for them, all their washing, ironing, cooking, shopping and even cleans their bedrooms.
The girls are NT with no health issues. One works part time one doesn’t work at all... she never has. The oldest has had boyfriends and has a social life whilst the youngest does everything with her mum and rarely leaves the house without her. My auntie works full time and has a number of friends, her friends have been encouraging her to go for weekends away and she has always refused.. however last weekend she went to a spa weekend but she ended up cutting the trip short as she was missing her daughter and was crying because she had left her overnight for the first time!!!

I am absolutely flabbergasted and don’t think the dynamics are very healthy at all. She expected my mum ( her sister) and me to sympathise and got upset when we said she has to cut the apron strings for all their benefits... she is now refusing to speak to us!!! Were we wrong to share our thoughts with her?

When she's moaning why not say "This is all your fault. You've failed as a mother and now need to deal with the consequences. When you actually want help we'll help move them out. But other wise stop your whining"

What happens when and if your aunty becomes ill, what happens when unfortunately she passes away??? What will they do then? I honestly can't wrap my head around this

seeing as the auntie isn't speaking to her about it now, I'd say it is her business.

Auntie isn’t speaking to her now as she took it upon herself to spout her judgement rather than offer a shoulder.

We have had years and years of it and have always bitten our tongues in the past but I guess this was the final straw it’s a toxic environment for them all.

@Yabbers why should she offer a shoulder? Useless people who orchestrate their own misery should be left to it.

Yabbers

The auntie made it OP OP's family's business.

my auntie has moaned and cried about them in the past and begged my mum to come and help declutter the youngest daughters room

I have some distant cousins with a similar dynamic. The mother is now elderly, the son is nearly 50. The son works away from home from time to time (usually abroad, earning good money) but when he comes home his mother waits on him hand and foot, cooking, cleaning, tidying his room, everything. And yes, he dictates what they will watch on TV and also, what they will eat (she is expected to buy it, of course). She has worked for many years in a shop, still works part-time (although 80) and is not paid well but the son makes absolutely no financial contribution at all.

I disagree with the post above that suggests this kind of set-up is not abusive: it is. Unfortunately, it is mutually abusive: Mother has ruined her son by having no expectations at all and by skivvying for him; Son accepts her skivvying etc because it's what he has always known.

At the end of the day, there's nothing you can do unless someone in such a dynamic really wants to change. And yes, some people can't be helped. This relative had two husbands, both alcoholics.The second husband (father of her son, long since departed the scene) she met at an AA meeting she went to to support her first husband in his efforts to give up the booze, you couldn't make it up.

I actually think it sounds really odd on your aunties part. It screams of facilitating dependence and reliance on mum. Perhaps I'm sensitive because of my background. Mam is and was a control freak. She kept me as dependent on her as possible including her dressing me and washing my hair until I was 10, which I didn't particularly like but couldn't stop it. She refused to show me how to even boil pasta or use a washing machine which was a great learning curve when I left home.

She was unhealthily involved in my life, including getting upset if I went to drs and didn't tell her. She sobbed when I went to uni, even when I was doing a levels she would break down. It put so much pressure on me. I'm an addict and even now she tries to give me cocodamol, and I suspect it's because she wants me to need and rely on her. She texts even now nagging if I've done my washing, washed my hair etc. I'm 24, perfectly capable and live 3hrs away. In fact a big part of my moving away was needing to get away from that toxic environment (emotional abuse there too)

In your cousin's situation I doubt either woman is happy. Who would be? I suspect there's more going on there. It seems your auntie has woefully underprepared them for the real world, and perhaps made the real world seem so scary as to facilitate dependency? I don't think you understand just how hard it is even to decide to move out when you're living in that environment. This situation isn't the girls doing and your auntie isn't a victim . She has done her daughter's a great disservice, they have no social life or life outside her, j bet anything there is some emotional manipulation there (that crying for a start) at the very least. It's only through sheer luck the eldest is going against the grain and trying. The youngest isn't 'lazy' (or she is, but that is the issue). She's a young woman who's been surgically attached to her mum's apron strings and has no idea how to sever them or even the value of doing that

I suggest you talk to both girls op

Madein1995, agree with what you say about facilitating dependence and over-reliance. A child who is brought up without basic life skills is likely to find it very, very difficult to break away.

Best wishes to you on your own journey, living well away from your mother sounds wise.

She has created learned helplessness.

Hwr cutting the trip short could be her fear that her DD will realise that she can live without her and plan on a life that doesn't involve her.

It's a subtle form of abuse. You're viewing your Aunt as the victim but she isn't.

By the sounds of it her youngest DD could be classed as a vulnerable adult.

That does sound very unhealthy for both of them. I have a friend who has a relationship with her mum a bit like that. She eventually moved out of home in her late 20s and her mum made her feel so guilty about it. Her mum now rings her everyday and tells her about money issues, issues in her relationship (with friend's dad) and how depressed and lonely she is. My poor friend is constantly worried about her and gives all her spare money to her. She's in her 30s and has never had a boyfriend or travelled or done anything which could make her mum upset. I do think it's a bit toxic when mother/daughter relationships are so codependent.

Of course this is your business if your aunt is turning to you.

It is very toxic but the no working thing is odd. Where do three adults get money from? Why can’t they all just work full time?

It sounds disgustingly unhealthy, but not abusive, - It is abusive. The mum has not only not helped them learn how to be adults, she has actively prevented it.

If it works for them, what business is it of yours?

You see answers like this a lot, I often wonder do the people that write it think people shouldn't care about what other people they care about do? Of course they will!

We have a similar set up to this in our wider family. In this case both parents infantilised their children and they have never been equipped to live in the real world. The DD died young of a preventable cancer and the DS got married but his DW basically has had to take over from the MIL. The DS has two DC and his parents continue to infantilise their DGC. It's really weird to see them talking to the teens as if they are two. It's bordering on a mental illness in my opinion.

What happens when Auntie is old, unwell or dies?

It doesn't sound as if the younger daughter in particular has any life skills at all, is especially up for caring for her mum despite the love lavished on her all these years and is in for a rude shock when the bank of mum shuts up shop.

At least older daughter is making some sort of attempts to get out.

You meet these families in healthcare and it is a nightmare for them as these sheltered adult children come out of the woodwork and they have no idea at all.

I agree it is a form of abuse. Parenting is to protect but also to equip kids to live in the real world.

One of my friends was a bit codependent with her parents (no where near to the same extent as your aunt ) and as an outsider you can see the dynamics are a bit odd. All life decisions have been made on her parents’ wants over her own or her husband’s.

She was modycoddled as a young adult. When I used to talk to her about it, she’d just say I didn’t understand as my parents obviously didn’t love me as much. She’d be in tears if she went a day without speaking to them- literally couldn’t function. I can see the pattern repeating. she is extremely overprotective with the children and constantly tells her husband off if he does anything without total helicoptering (E.g. 3 year old not allowed on a ride-on toy that a 1 year old could do without someone holding onto them). It is totally smothering.

OP you must feel helpless. Of course it's your business if your aunt is asking for help.
I think your aunt has brought this situation on herself . It sounds as though all of them would benefit from family therapy. However that's unlikely to happen.

I think all you and your mum can do is try to encourage your aunt to break the toes a bit. Eg can your mum take your aunt away for a weekend and help her deal with missing her daughters? Did your aunt really cut her weekend short for that reason or could it have been a convenient excuse if she wasnt enjoying herself?

The family dynamics sound totally unhealthy and the co-dependency will damage them all long-term

It's sad for these children brought up like this. My upbringing was bordering on neglect but I am very resilient and resourceful and practical as a result and my parents did their best and I loved them.

Your a lovely person.So right to be concerned could you take the youngest out and see what’s she’s really like. She might be totally different outside her home environment with her mum.
It’s really unhealthy but I’m sure this stems from your aunts break down in the relationship with the father.
It’s now become a mental health issue.
Keep your door open lots of good advice given take what you think might work.
Once again it’s really nice and uplifting to see your concern.

I really don’t agree with the posters saying that it is none of your business ScottishJo31. What would happen if your aunt was ill or incapacitated? She won’t be capable of doing everything for them indefinitely.

Do you think your aunt reacted so badly when you and your mum suggested she cut the apron strings because she knew deep down that she has helped create this situation? It probably came as a bit of a shock to her as you have ‘bitten your tongue’ until now. It does seem like co-dependency, as others say, but it doesn't sound as if your aunt and cousins would accept any counselling at the moment. I think the situation with the one you say has never worked or had boyfriends does sound more serious. She may be ok financially now while your aunt works full time but that will not last for ever.

This doesn’t leave you with much choice. You can either leave things as they are or try to keep in touch with your aunt, explaining that you wanted her to have some time off for herself. It does need careful handling - your aunt is probably only too aware that she does live in an unusual set up. I think in your position I’d try to read up about co-dependency to see if there are any strategies about the best way to respond but ultimately things may only change if there is a crisis.

god help her if your aunt became ill or died

Sadly, as and when this happens as it inevitably will, they will adapt and learn to cope. They will have no other option.

It sounds like the eldest DD is likely to move out, which could influence the younger DD to the realisation they must do likewise. Sibling rivalry can have its uses.

They are both still relatively young, all is not lost @ScottishJo31 !

what will happen is what used to happen to families like this 200 years ago when women lived at home if they didn't marry.
The girls won't marry or have children and will end up as carers for their mum eventually.

It sounds as if the mum has created this situation to make her feel wanted. Some women do this when they are divorced; they make their DDs their 'best friends' and tie them to them, because they are too scared to get out and get a new life.

On the other hand the daughters must be quite feeble not to go through the usual teenage rebel stage and want to push back- and move out.

I wonder if when they were younger there was a case for involving social services? This situation has taken years to develop.

Is the one not working claiming benefits? Is she not being pushed to find work?

If this is your aunt, your mum needs to step in and talk to her sister.

They are her nieces and this is not healthy. For anyone.

It all just sounds too weird, why doesn't the 24 year old have a job ? Your aunt must know this whole thing isn't right deep down she has too