To think if you're skint, it affects your children's outcomes in life

[racetogether]

We have always been skint. We don't particularly have a good quality of life- very small house, needs alot of work, no Garden, . My kids have never been away on a holiday, they don't have bikes- we can't afford it. We can't afford trips out even it it's free as we need take into account cost of petrol so they are few and far between. Things like going to zoos etc is out of the question. They've been wanting to join a football club for several years but at £40/m there's no chance.

I feel sad for my kids. They don't have the same opportunities as I would have liked to have given them. I have mental health issues and suffer from depression on and off and this also I find affects the way I parent.

I feel I'm really letting my kids down.

Ok the other hand, their friends holiday regular ansn

YANBU - absolutely it does. I grew up on/below breadline. I’m good with money, I pay my own way. I am self sufficient, hardworking, proud, resilient. I got used to not having ‘stuff’, my parents adored me and Dsibs and honestly ( and I know there where times when it was really hard on them) thatbwas all that mattered. We didn’t have proper heat, or hot water, or a phone,or a car or anything that wasn’t used, clothes, toys whatever for a very long time.
We never stayed overnight anywhere, No hols- my parents took holiday time from work and hung out with us, did day trips, all day at the beach with a picnic, went to the mountains or forest parks. We had their undivided attention.
They didn’t travel much or go anywhere much, so we’re always there for us,
We got a lot of family time.
Couldn’t afford books, but the library was beside the supermarket so we went every week. I have a literature degree.
Clothes were 2nd hand - I could give a damn about clothes now but appreciate that I can go buy new ones if I want.
I was 32 before I owned a new bike, bought if for myself. Mum always found us 2nd hand ones tho. I can buy my kids new bikes, they have 2nd hand ones and love them. They’re new to them.
There’s so much you can give kids, and I honestly believe if you have enough food, heat and a roof over your head then the rest will be ok.

Oh is it Blue Reef? I should have known. We used to go every year. A day trip to Cullercoats used to be the highlight of my kid's summer holiday. Even I loved it from the depths of my depression (although the effort of getting everyone ready, making the picnic and getting there was mentally and physically exhausting).

It was our yearly treat when we were on the bones of our arse. I don't recall how much entry is exactly but it can't have been much. We haven't been this year. We went to Alton Towers instead and have a cottage holiday planned later this week. I beat my depression, went back to college and got two new jobs.

It's not easy OP, it's really, really not, especially when the kids are very young but it is summermountable. It might not feel like it today but keep plugging away and you'll get there. I'm not rich. I won't lie to you and tell you it you're fortunes will suddenly change if you conquor your depression. They won't. I work my ass off, working 40-70 hours a week in job(s) I don't hate but it means we have enough to get by with a bit left over for treats, savings and pensions. We're much happier overall to when I was barely scraping by on PT wages.

I resent having to work the equivalent of two full time jobs in order to live what I consider to be a normal life with normal things to look forward to but I wouldn't change it.

Correction; I would* change it. I would fix the child maintenance service and pay everyone a living wage. I don't believe anyone should have to work 70 hours a week to afford a holiday a year and a few eyeshadow palettes. What I mean is I wouldn't go back to working less and having less.

Yes poverty can impact a child's future whether via lack of opportunities and experiences or the way a person views themselves.

I never ever went without food and did not wear second hand clothes so I know it could have been worse. My dm had to budget very carefully which meant our clothes were practical rather than fashionable. I recall owning just one pair of Nike trainers throughout my five years of secondary school. On one occasion I squeezed my feet into my cousin's trainers on PE day. I used to dread own clothes day as I did not having special to wear.

I felt like the poor relation among my friends. I started work at 16 and promised I would never find myself in a position where I have to borrow money.

There is a lot of focus on poverty and cause and effect.

Just skint because of circumstances, no, my gran was skint and widowed with a 6 Yr old and a 1 Yr old in 1954 in a strange country (UK) having fled during the war. However she was University educated though her qualification was never used due to her circumstances and she worked hard to bring up my dad and uncle why both went to uni and did V well.

Growing up in poverty due to mental health, addiction, criminality, abuse etc yes very much so.

It is lovely to be able to give dc amazing stuff,. But a loving parent is worth all the stuff in the world.

Ps mh I am talking severe mh, depression not so much

financial hardship contributes significantly to social exclusion
This was me growing up. I couldn’t go to dance and music classes with the other girls from school, so I wasn’t allowed in their clique at break time. As a teen I had no money to go out so I never met or mixed with anyone. I was always sat at home bored and depressed. As a young adult I interviewed badly due to having no extra curricular hobbies because I couldn’t afford any. I lacked well paid parents or other adults who could offer career opportunities or advice.

Now I’m grown up I’ve found that my peers (the other kids who hung around the streets broke and bored) haven’t done well in life. The kids who did well are the ones I couldn’t afford to hang around with. I’m doing everything I can to give my own DC the opportunities I never had.

My DH grew up in a somewhat similar situation, he had to quit football as his parents couldn't pay for it anymore and he was gutted as apparently he was quite good (of course he would say that ) and he couldn't take up his place at university as his dad said they couldn't afford to pay for it. His situation is different to yours as his parents technically could have paid, they simply didn't prioritize him but on the bright side it's made him incredibly driven.

He is waaaaaay better off than pretty much all of my middle class/university educated friends. His childhood was the driving force and his work ethic is incredible.

Having said that, he does occasionally speak of his childhood in a regretful way but it was less to do with money and more due to the fact that his parents didn't ever encourage him. So if you can find creative ways of improving your DCs opportunities they'll remember that you tried hard and encouraged them and that's what counts.

I grew up in a household like this. I am now out everyday doing something, anything, even if it’s just getting on the tube and going to the free museums or the good parks. I just want to give my kids every opportunity I never had, I know it’s the other end of the pendulum but I want them to see all the things in the world that I never knew existed. It’s not always expensive things, growing up poor means I am very resourceful and I want them to have the cultural experience as well as just fun days. I feel for you OP

It does affect the outcome of children to a certain extent, however the nicest families aren't necessarily well off.
Sometimes it's down to doing free things, cheap arty stuff in the house, baking dinner/cakes together.
We grew up in a very poor household, and we started life being really quite hard up.

I started dog walking aboug 4 years ago, I only took dogs that were child friendly. We spent the entire summer in parks and travelling from one place to the next. It gave us some of our fondest memories. We were "exploring" and it helped us financially. Is that an option for you?

Looking back when I was a child, the most well adjusted kids parents spent time with them. Cared about them, spent time baking fairy cakes and cheap crafts at home, writing stories together and drawing together. Please don't beat yourself up because of money. I always envied those children as a child and as a mum wish I could emulate them more.

I was pretty much made homeless when I left my abusive ex as he changed the locks to the jointly owned marital home. My kids were just 3 and 6 at the time and I was working 3 hrs pw.

We stayed with my parents for 6 weeks and I managed to increase my hours to 16 pw. Then privately rented a tiny, damp and mouldy two-bed for five years. I went without things like heating (and sometimes food) on the days the kids were with their dad. It was a massive financial struggle for me doing it all independently.

I was determined not to allow my financial situation get in the way of my boys' achieving - in fact it made me even more determined they would do well.

Last year my eldest sat entrance exams for a very hard to get into secondary school (not private but hugely oversubscribed) and he acheived the top 10% of the applicants in all three exams entered.

Since starting at the school he has been selected for the Honours Programme as one of the highest achievers in his year group.

So no, I don't believe that being skint (define skint, however) automatically means poor outcomes for children.

This is controversial, but assuming the OP is in England, having a child is always a choice

I've got a million points that I could add to this thread, but I'm just going to start with saying a massive FUCK OFF to this pp. How dare you, and how narrow must your life experience be to even think this?

Being poor is rubbish.

I grew up this way, Dad couldn't manage money always in debt. He also had mental health issues.

He gave me a love of books, we read alot which is free with libraries and now free cycling etc.

My Mum did everything practical cooking, diy, and indulged my imagination. We built dens and cooked together etc.

Life was hard but there are some good memories. I found escape from being poor later by studying my Mum a single Mum then saved and bought me a PC. I think she made hard choices about what was important.

Could you read with them, indulge in indoor dens, use free cycling. My Mum found grants etc to train when we were older which helped earn her more money.

I find it interesting that some people on this thread seem to think that you can't turn out generous, empathetic and kind because you were brought up comfortably... odd POV

@Frequency don't feel too bad, we were taught budgeting and saving from very young - even had to great a presentation for when we wanted a 'raise' in pocket money. My sister still haemorrhages money. I just think some people are wired that way.

I was wandering through Eventbrite last night and saw a load of free events near to me. All sorts - for adults and kids. I signed up for a walk, architecture lecture and a running club (all free). I’ve also seen a ‘cooking with leftovers’ class running - very cheap.

Look around and see what’s happening. We didn’t have lots of money as kids - but we were always doing ‘things’ and even a family high tea (home made cake and sandwiches and tea) and watching a video was something we loved.

And this was in Scotland where the weather isn’t brilliant.

Why is it unfair for Jaxhog to ask I have to wonder why you kept on having kids when you were skint? when the OP has stated they have always been skint?

I get there is nothing the OP can do about that now, but my parents were very poor in the 1970s and early 80s. The only reason things improved in the late 80s was because our very, very run down house (my bedroom in the attic I reached by ladder between the ages of 10 and 14) sat in a very large garden and someone made my dad an incredible offer to buy house and garden for building. But even so my parents are far from well off and both still works manual jobs in their mid-60s. They were able to buy a decent 3-bed house, a new car (ours were usually rust buckets) and we went on our first ever holiday in 1989 when I was 15 to a holiday camp on the Isle of Wight.

Because my parents were poor, they worked out they could JUST about to have one child. They didn't have any more because they couldn't afford it. All our clothes were jumble sales (remember them?). All of my toys were second hand. They'd make a castle out of a giant cardboard box that I'd play in. I spent most of my time in the large garden on a climbing frame with friends. One day my dad brought home a large oil drum and cleaned it out. Great fun standing on top of it rolling it around; or going inside it while a friend rolled me round the garden; if it was hot, filling it with water and standing in it.

I had a great childhood. But my parents still say to this day while they would have liked more children, they couldn't have afforded a second and didn't think it right to selfishly have what they wanted without thinking how it might affect the second child.

Thanks Lemon. It doesn't upset me, per se, I just wish I was better at managing money. I think part of it is I grew up with nothing, then I got a job had the nice things and then I met ex-H who was controlling and had nothing again, including clothes. When I left him I had one pair jeans and two tops that fit me because when I gained weight and/or my clothes became worn he refused to replace them. I frequently panic that I'll go back to having nothing. The more I have, the longer it will last if the money stops, iyswim?

I hoard food, make-up, skin care and hair care products, clothes and jobs (of which I have two regular jobs, one fulltime and one part-time, one small income from self-employment and one as and when needed job because I kept in touch with my old boss instead of just leaving completely). I keep us well stocked of all the things I missed the most when I had nothing. I realise having a small cushion savings would benefit us better but if we run out of baked beans or silver eyeshadow I panic and buy eight tins of beans and an entire eyeshadow palette instead of just one single silver eyeshadow before engaging my brain.

But I do pay the bills and rent on pay day without fail and I do have a small amount of savings, so I'm doing better than when I left home and school at 16. My money mostly lasts until payday but that's partly because my pt job pays weekly and my full-time job pays monthly.

I find it interesting that some people on this thread seem to think that you can't turn out generous, empathetic and kind because you were brought up comfortably... odd POV

More often than not that is the case. A great deal of people who were brought up comfortably are merely virtual signalling / putting on a veneer of humility when being generous and empathetic to those less fortunate and the unfortunate circumstances they find themselves in.

"When helping the poor, keep the camera at home".

@Frequency

I am exactly the same as you describe with money/hoarding. The things I'm worst with are the things that have had the biggest impact to go without. I currently have about £50 on the gas meter, because I've been topping it up even while not needed in summer (a good practice though, gives a buffer) and about £30 electric, topping up the same amount as winter time. I've also always got a cupboard full of sanitary products. Three or four times as many as we actually need, but I went without them and it's degrading, nasty, dirty and smelly and I'm determined DD doesn't have to do that too. No way. I buy 4 packs a month still (2 each, which we don't quite use) religiously and if I know my wages will be shorter than usual (no overtime that week or I've dared to be ill, or need hospital/doctor treatment) then I buy more - because I'm terrified of running out, even though I know logically we've enough to sink a ship.
I'm trying not to worry about DD being affected by her growing up if not in poverty, then poorer. We're much better now she's older and like you I'm doing the equivalent of 1.5 full time jobs (same job but long shifts and a lot of hours) because she doesn't need the care she did. I'm determined that even if I need to return back to live with my mother, to pay for it, DD will get to university (she wants to) and do better than I did.
I was written off by my parents (2 birth and 2 step) and school as a teen due to mental health issues. I missed out on so much because I was ill. My life would be completely different (I have Dsis for comparison) had I not been ill. I've had to do some awful jobs, sometimes I still cry at the thought of this one, but it's better paid and I'm treated better than others I've had, and it may well end up being my DDs ticket out of this cycle that's always looming.
I think unless you've actually been in it, it's very hard to understand and therefore empathise. Not that people shouldn't try though.

Op I grew up in a home where finances were rarely an issue but I had alcohol dependant and totally disengaged parents. Now and again they’d throw money at me to go out with my friends, so therefore I didn’t miss out on the things you describe.
I actually spent much of my childhood with my very poor friend and her family. They lived in a dirty, shabby flat with several animals and it was freezing as they could rarely afford to heat it. They rarely could afford to go out so we’d go to the woods or look around the market. We hsd the BEST time just being in the family home.. cooking, family quizzes, watching game shows etc etc. Life isn’t black and white, don’t give yourself a hard time xx

Ps mh I am talking severe mh, depression not so much

Yeah, cos depression isn't serious or severe ever.

My dh grew up with very little. He never went on holiday, never went for days out. They just didn't have the money. This made him determined to do better. He always wants to make sure our children don't go without etc. He wants them to experience all the things he never got the chance to.
Now I'm not gonna say that he looks back at his childhood fondly cause he doesn't but it hasn't harmed him. Although the money hoarding does get a bit old quite fast. And sometimes he views somethings as luxuries when most people wouldn't even question buying them.

@ShatnersWig and @Jaxhog - agree with you both 100%. It's not the done thing to say on MN (and not especially helpful on this thread) but having a child is always a choice. They don't ask to be born.