To wish people would stop with the “grades don’t mean anything” shit

[Rapidmama]

Try getting any job without at least English and maths

Of course they don’t define you and there is always the exceptions to the rule but honestly all these people rolling out the “it doesn’t matter it’s just a piece of paper” excuses are talking shit.

Usual exemptions for SN, extenuating circumstances etc.

I am incapable of passing a Maths GCSE, it never held me back at all and when I needed it in order to teach I had lessons and took the equivalent Level 2. Although, I wouldn't be allowed to teach compulsory school aged children, nor Nursing. So weirdly enough not equivalent at all.
The reason I left teaching is ironic - I was being forced to teach Further Maths. My ability lies between ks2 and ks3.
Also have a dd averaging a level 3 and panicking a bit.

I tried O level maths twice. First time I got an E, second time I beleive the grade was unclassified. I then tried CSE maths twice - highest mark I managed was equivalent to an O level grade D. So clearly a maths dunce......apart from the fact that I carried on to do A levels and a degree and i am now an IT professional with no issues dealing with maths on a daily. Give me a maths 'question' and I want to curl and up and sob.

Mathematics in school is not the same kind of maths that we need in real life IME.

However - in order to shake my decades long Maths curse I am considering doing a Maths GCSE alongside my DS who will have to retake his alongside his college course.

Absolutely agree. I’m in post-16 education and often have to guide very disappointed young people to courses that they hadn’t thought about as they can’t get on A levels. Grades very much matter in that moment as a passport to the next step. Re-sitting becomes less and less of an option. It is a shame because we know that those letters aren’t the full story of those young people, but they are the only tangible measure we have.

Grades not letters!

GCSE results are more important than A levels.
Many jobs and many universities want good GCSE results.

I know a teacher who had to redo his GCSE English language because the university he wanted to train at said without it he can't start teacher training. And get this..
He had an A level in English language, grade B.

@Pineapple1 what a load of tosh. A Levels are far more important for university admissions.

I'm a junior doctor, try and work out what I achieved at GCSE and A Level.

Sunshine cake,thats a lovely way of putting it.My kids GCSE results and ALevels were okayish but both did degrees.One got a first and the other a 2/1.I consider them successful as they are financially independent,are happy with what they have and value what they have to do to maintain their lifestyle.We do need apprenticeships for those who arent academic but can still succeed.

Surely it depends what you want to do. I have 2 mid 20s DCs. One has a STEM masters degree and would not have got their current job without it. The other dropped out of education before GCSEs but has been very successful in a career where experience is more important than qualifications.

Just what I feel, busyhonestchildcarer.

Congrats on great kids .

There are solutions to all of it. So important to have a plan b. A 16 year old in our village killed himself this week. Totally devastating and puts everything into perspective.

Worra Liberty

It's not that they don't mean anything

They just don't mean everything

THIS
I’m educated to degree level - I encourage my 4 children academically and 2 are at Russell group Uni’s and 2 will go.
However - my husband is dyslexic, has no qualification at all and earns over 100k to my meagre salary less than 1/3 of his income.
He is very bright, very quick and has a great business brain but he will never never be an academic.

WorraLiberty Thu 22-Aug-19 09:28:40

It's not that they don't mean anything
They just don't mean everything

^ Worra has it, this is so^ true.

TooMuchTrouble, I swear that I hadn't seen your post. I just saw Worra's, started typing mine - and there was yours...

Pineapple1 A levels are massively important to get on a degree course!

I left school with 2 GCSEs. A couple of years later when I was ready I took A levels and got 4, did a degree, an MA and a PhD. At no point did my rubbish GCSEs matter even a tiny bit.

The GCSE system is rubbish. You’re basically testing kids on exam technique not knowledge or potential for careers so I feel GCSEs are a total waste of time.

OP I think your the one talking shit! Teenagers are under so much pressure from such a young age, it's ridiculous. There are so many options and opportunities to take regardless of exam results. Personally I totally failed my GCSEs, I wasn't an unruly child just had a big change moving from SE to NW. When I started my new school in yr 10 I really struggled with making new friends & found the whole experience very upsetting. However looking back everything has worked out great. I applied for a buisness admin apprenticeship, which was a great achievement (over 200 applicants & only 12 positions). I'm now 33, work at the same company in admin/customer service role, met my wonderful husband at work and am set to be mortgage free before my 45th birthday. All in all not bad for a school failure

I agree but thankfully there are other options and if your child hits the deck academically you need to be supportive and have a back up plan.

My youngest DD is a dancer, she has zero interest in school and just wants to dance her way through life: I genuinely don't know what will happen in her GCSES in 2 years time but I just think they, 5 out of 6 ain't bad.

You just have to let them be themselves and support them.

Exam results aren't the be all and the end all, however in my experience the people who tend to trot out lines like "exam results don't define you / they don't mean everything" never seem to mean 'exam results aren't the only thing you need in life, there are many paths to being successful but education is one of them'. They never seem to be interested in the approach "some people have a really tough time at school and they get their qualifications later through different pathways" . They never seem to be interested in discussing vocational options, exploring a range of qualifications that can enable a young person to be successful etc because that would mean having to acknowledge that qualifications have some value (and we couldn't have that).

In my experience they are usually anti-intellectuals who think they're cool for sharing things like:
Richard Branson / Alan Sugar / other exception here didn't get GCSEs/go to uni etc and they are billionaires" (conveniently forgetting that for millions and millions not having basic qualifications impacts their life chances for the worse, but who cares about that when you can be woke and cool)

I want my children to be happy, not robots learning facts (seeming to miss the bloody obvious that being happy, kind and also doing well in school aren't mutually exclusive)

I generally find my eyes rolling to the back of my head when people like that start blabbering on or sharing "inspiration" on social media. Too often they think they've got some unique radical insight but in reality they know very little about the topic.

Isn’t it something people say to try and be kind if people don’t do well? They don’t really believe it? In reality, the majority of people DO need grades that will get them jobs, next level education, etc. And people who say this know it, deep down.

And it’s why most parents fret and nag our dc to study and do the best they can. My DS1 just got As and Bs and even a sprinkling of A* at GCSE but it took some work by him, nudged by us as parents and his hardworking teachers. This was the boy whose year 5/6 teacher told me wasn’t necessarily very academic and not everyone ends up doing well in school 😕 Glad we never gave up on him and embraced the “grades aren’t everything” attitude.

I think getting good results at 16 gives you a certain confidence at a critical age. Of course it does. It makes you feel as if doors are open to you in terms of future options, rather than barriers coming down.

Of course, not everyone is academic, but they will know this and focus on whatever other talents they have. But just as, if you want to be an actor, the ability to succeed in auditions is crucial, exams are important to those teenagers who are more academic and have worked very hard for their results.

My son struggled as a younger child with some dyspraxic tendencies. At 7, he could barely hold a pen. He was aiming for 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. On Thursday, he opened his envelope and he got nine “9” grades and one “8” grade (which is being remarked as only one point off the “9”). He couldn’t believe it. He has worked so hard and has been so self-motivated all year and we’re so delighted for him. Today he asked us to take him to Cambridge so he can see what it’s like. He wouldn’t have even thought of that last week. So although GCSEs may not be that important to unis, they do affect how the student feels about their own potential going forward.

Welliesandpyjamas
In a certain circumstance it can be the sort of thing said when someone hasn't done great, but honestly having worked with teens for years the majority of them can spot a disingenuous adult talking shit a mile off.
Much better to be kind and honest, e.g. that's not gone to plan, have you had thought about what you might want to do as your next steps? If you're wanting to do X, have you considered Y? It goes much further than adults bullshitting them either out of awkward fear of acknowledging the obvious or being too focused on appearing cool and anti-establishment.

LolaSmiles I think your post is pretty insulting. I don’t recognise the “people” you are generalising about. Anti-intellectuals my arse.

TheLittleDogLaughed
What's insulting to say that sometimes it can be a little line in a bad situation but in my experience the people who tend Togo overboard on that sort of thing are usually dismissive of educational achievement?

People who routinely downplay the importance and usefulness of education and qualifications are usually fairly anti-intellectual. Otherwise they'd spend a little more time having a more balanced view that it's not the be all and end all (as I've said), but actually is kinda important and goes hand in hand with many other important things.

I used to take the approach of 'dont worry, it's not that important in the grand scheme of things' because it came from a place of wanting kids to feel better, and on reflection that made me feel better as the adult because I could pat myself on the back for being cool and oh so supportive.

The longer I spend working with teens, the more I realised they don't want or need adults fobbing them off with silly platitudes. Teens know that it's important to be kind, polite and hold value in some qualifications (so they don't need adults acting like it's either / or). Teens know that getting a set of appropriate qualifications opens doors to the next steps in life (so they don't need adults bullshitting them). Most teens know that for every Richard Branson or Alan Sugar who made it, there's millions more who have worse life chances by virtue of poor education (so they don't need smug adults using the exceptions to the rule to make them feel cool as adults). Just like false praise, teens pick up on adults who might be well meaning but are bullshitting them.

LolaSmiles there you go again with your 'people' stuff. Which people? Where?

Such sweeping generalisations and narrow-mindedness as well. Just because you don't happen to think that someone who understands that GCSEs are not the right system for evaluating a teenager's abilities / they are not ready to be tested like that / they don't yet know what they want to do doesn't mean you're a fan of bloody Richard Branson and Alan Sugar! It just means that you'll work out what you want to do and succeed at it in a different way.

I think a lot of teens I come into contact with think the opposite of what you're saying and that the incredibly hard sell and pressure of school which insists that you must get GCSEs or pretty much fail your life is bullshit. The school counsellor at dd's school said she had never seen so many kids breaking under the GCSE pressure as she has in the last two years.

How many people go on to have a career related to their GCSE choices? Not many that I can think of in my immediate circle.