To wish people would stop with the “grades don’t mean anything” shit

[Rapidmama]

Try getting any job without at least English and maths

Of course they don’t define you and there is always the exceptions to the rule but honestly all these people rolling out the “it doesn’t matter it’s just a piece of paper” excuses are talking shit.

Usual exemptions for SN, extenuating circumstances etc.

Usual exemptions for SN, extenuating circumstances etc

Adding this at the end doesn’t make your post sound any better.

I think DD is screwed then. She has Dyscalculia and has failed GCSE maths 3 times.

I got a job at 19 without my Maths & English GCSE. So no, they are not everything .

It's pretty stupid to say grades don't matter, and it's equally stupid to say nobody gets anywhere without good grades. Some do jobs that don't need them. Others end up accessing pretty high-end jobs via less conventional routes.

But lots of people couldn't have done the jobs they do if they hadn't got decent qualifications in the necessary subjects. I certainly couldn't, as I'm a teacher.

Those who say that the system is useless and that GCSEs and A Levels are no gauge of anyone's abilities or intelligence - what system would you like to have instead? (Not being snarky - am genuinely interested.) More vocational qualifications, I guess. But what about the students who want and need a more academic pathway?

@lazylinguist I'd have a tiered system from 14, with academic options for those who wanted them and practical options for others.

Try getting any job without at least English and maths

I know loads of professionals with Math and English formal education, some are also multi millionaires, I also know loads of people with no qualifications who have “jobs” they just don’t have careers.

Richard Branson has no formal education and is CEO/owner of over 100 companies.

I also known

*without

Richard Bransons are few and far between. That's why it's always his name that comes up as an example. You'd have to have an unusual level of drive and self-belief to make it as big as he did, whether you had qualifications or not. But if he had that much drive and commitment (and is obviously not stupid), one wonders why he didn't pass a single O Level.

Lots off reality stars, models, sportsmen/woman, actors and actions, musicians are all highly paid professionals with no formal education.

Richard Branson is not “unique” he’s just known, I know lots of CEO with no formal education, and lots of individuals who are professionals in their own fields and very successful.

IMO the only thing they mean is you're either good or bad at memorising things and sitting exams.

I don't believe your gcse results define you or your abilities. Some of the worlds top entrepreneurs and some fantastic chefs I know all failed or fell out of school.

GCSE are one way of testing and there isn't even coursework nowadays.

Yes there are people who've gone on to be very successful with no qualifications. But I suspect that compared those in low paid jobs without them, the ratio is vanishingly small.

And the reality stars, models, sportsmen and women are a tiny proportion of the population as a whole.

This may be a bit of a derail, but reality TV has been very dangerous to many teenagers. They think that all they need to do to be rich and famous is to get on one of those shows and the world will fall into their lap.

Not sure reality stars and models could be described as professionals, but I take your point. However, when I hear 14 year-olds saying that school's pointless because they're going to be a famous YouTuber/reality star/actor, I tend to think "Hmmm, if I were you I'd try and get some qualifications as a bit of a back-up".

It's great to still be able to do well for yourself if you were unable to pass exams at school. However, if someone basically couldn't be arsed to try, that doesn't exactly bode well for them making it out in the real world either.

Maths and English grades aside...
I didn't get great GCSEs (B, Cs and a few As so not abysmal) and no A levels. I was, and am, fairly clever but did not try very hard and dropped out of college for other reasons. At 21 I took an access course and got into Uni and am now halfway through a law degree.
In terms of jobs, they've never been interested in my grades, but past jobs.
Grades are everything if you want Oxbridge but there are other routes into Uni if you want to go but didn't perform well in GCSEs and A Level

Meh, I failed Maths GCSE. Never had a problem getting jobs though.

I agree with a PP who tells her kids it's all just about getting to the next step. As long as their maths and English grades are fine, by the time they get to the next step who is really going to care that much about their D (or whatever the number equivalent is!) in History if they want to do biochemistry? That example I've just used is rooted in real life - I know a girl who was warned off Oxbridge because they'd check her GCSEs and see that D in History...you can guess where she is now

Academic grades provide the entry route for further study.

As do Access/Foundation courses, vocational training and portfolio submissions.

It's not all about GCSE & A level results and it's unhelpful to kids to feel they're failures because they didn't get the 'right' GCSE results. They can resit exams or look at alternates - BTech, NVQ.

To the poster who said ‘those with special needs don’t cut the mustard academically’, my daughter has Aspergers, a disability and classed as special needs.

She got 10 A*, so your argument is invalid, my nephew came out with 3’s today and is devastated (not academic), but he will fair further in life because he is social and can be around people. My daughter works 4 hours a week and will never work full time due to social overload.

It’s not the end of the world, I have the same job as my husband and he was academically gifted with 12 A’s, I left school with 3 GCSE’s, he gets through life on his academic ability, I have got there through personality and being good with people.

It may make the journey a little longer and a little bit more difficult, but they will get their at their own pace, on their own journey.

And to add I left university last year at the age of 48 with a first class degree, not bad for someone who left school with a B and 2 C’s who never passed maths.

Actually they are not the be and end all. Especially not at 16. If someone wants to progress as they grow up they can re sit exams at that point. There is many reasons other than SEN that mean young people do not reach the expected mark.

I hate the pressure we put on young people, MH is at an all time high and making a YP feel awful because they didn't get the grades at 15/16 when actually they don't even know what they want to do for a future or maybe have many more other priorities in their lives is wrong.

Also - no one has ever ever asked to see proof of my GCSE's or my Degree certificate- EVER!

I don’t think people mean that grades mean ‘nothing’ I think people mean that it doesn’t mean your life is over if you don’t have top grades.

I hate it when people stand by the ‘you can only be successful with a top education’ narrative. There are plenty of other options in life.

I was predicted top grades but I became a young carer so schooling took a backseat so I ended up with lower grades than predicted but circumstances being as they were meant it was the only outcome. I redid my GCSEs later in life and will graduate as a teacher next summer so there are always other options.

DH’s family are very university is all that matters people and boy have they put him down over the years due to being the only sibling not to attend. He followed a trade instead and as it turns out his salary far surpasses any of their university degree careers.

Some people are just not academic or simply do not perform under exam conditions, the amount of pressure put on children to get only the top grades or be a failure for life is cruel and unfair.

It's not that they don't mean anything

They just don't mean everything

Very true!

I think this is quite interesting. I was told that maths and English were essential too, when I got my results in the late 90s. I got a D in maths, As in English. My maths performance was poor enough that the paper I took didn’t allow me to achieve any higher than a D anyway.

I obviously got into Alevels, and I easily got offers from a number of ex polys, Achieving a 2:1 in Finance.
I graduated pretty clueless and carried on with my uni weekend job, getting promoted internally until I was a marketing assistant. A few years later I decided to try finance and got a job as a finance assistant in the civil service.
I then moved into a different industry where I was sponsored in my chartered exams and became an accountant. I am now very senior in the finance department. I recruit qualified accountants and have never asked for a levels or GCSEs, and would find it extremely odd if someone included them on their CV (beyond say- “8 GCSEs achieved”)

So i often wonder whether things are different now and you REALLY need GCSE maths and English. And I suspect not tbh.

• there are still plenty of universities desperate for students who won’t care

• many companies don’t check GCSEs past your first job- and many don’t care about the results, they just want to know you did them

• once you’ve achieved a higher level of qualification it’s likely that employers will only concentrate on that.

So I think it’s likely that you still don’t need maths and English tbh. Unless you want to be a teacher which I know it’s essential for.

However. That said, I would do everything in my power to make sure MY children achieved the highest possible grades in these 2. My parents weren’t really interested and I had no support. So I’m not saying it’s ok to get poor marks in maths or English, just that I think you’d still have plenty of opportunities in life

I've got a maths and English GCSE according to my CV 🤣

I never passed my maths Gcse, I didn't need it when I applied to do my nursing diploma in 1993 ,at the time I needed five Gcse, passes at grade C or above one being English language which I had and maths or a science and I had two grade C,s in biology and chemistry which was sufficient it was ironic though years later when I was interviewing for health care assistants,and one of the requirements was that they had GCSE maths and English at C or above ( I think it they didn't have them they could do a literacy and numeracy test ,I found out my manager haden t passed her maths O,level either !

It's not the end of the world if you get poor grades but..... English and Maths do matter. I have a member of staff in their early 50s who was recently told they were ineligible for an internal development programme which required a GCSE C in English and Maths or equivalent. She failed O Level Maths at a point where you weren't advised / allowed to resit, and is seeing the effects more than 30yrs later.

Every academic qualification is really only needed to get you to the next level, but English and Maths grades matter.