To wish people would stop with the “grades don’t mean anything” shit

[Rapidmama]

Try getting any job without at least English and maths

Of course they don’t define you and there is always the exceptions to the rule but honestly all these people rolling out the “it doesn’t matter it’s just a piece of paper” excuses are talking shit.

Usual exemptions for SN, extenuating circumstances etc.

My oldest son has special needs. He went to a SN school and then on to college to do a basic living independently type course. Part of his college course was one day a week work experience who gave him some part time summer work once he left. He then spent the best part of two year unemployed but applying for everything from shop work, factory work, portering and kitchen work. He is more than capable of doing these jobs but no one would give him a chance. Then he applied for a nil hours contract job and McDonald’s. They ignored his differences and took a chance on him. Nearly two years on he is still there working on average 35 hours a week and has just won their employee of the month for his store.
People like to slag off and look down on McDonald’s but they have given my son that chance to show that even though he is different he is still capable of holding down a job and being an active member of society.
He doesn’t have any GCSEs nor will he ever have them.

it's just a piece of paper

This is a major bug bear of mine. Money is just pieces of paper. Marriage certificates are pieces of paper. VISAs are pieces of paper. A PHD is a piece of paper. A criminal record is a piece of paper. The deed to your property is a piece of paper.

PIECES OF PAPER CAN MEAN THINGS AND AFFECT YOUR LIFE

Wow Becca
What a sad but amazing story.
Some parents though ☹️
I can’t do enough for my grandchildren and children if they need me.
My grandson got his results today . He got a fiver for every mock pass and a tenner for every gcse pass.
Bless him, he said..do I have to get an 8 for my tenner
No, I said a pass will do.
So, he’s pocketing a £100 today..

Proud nana 😁

Dissim, The undergrad courses with the highest average IQs for students are maths and physics. They are probably amongst the most difficult courses. But the entry requirements for those courses are lower than things like Law and Medicine.

I am not sure. On another thread I did a very unscientific comparison with MPhysics at Manchester which requires either two A stars and an A, or A and two A stars. Whereas for law, it was one A star and 2As at UCL and Durham; and law at Manchester was 3 As. (leaving o/b out as wasn't relevant to that thread!)

I haven't looked at medicine, but my impression is that quite often the offers are 3 As (although not at the 'top' places, but then all medicine courses are oversubscribed). So I think it's not quite so clear cut - UCL I would have thought could fill their law places if they required an A star (no evidence, just my hunch!) but seem to choose not to.

Don’t sweat..my oldest grandson is in the same boat. It’s highly likely he won’t pass his one gcse but he’s a lovely lad..and o mg you should see his artwork.
He is 21 and starts uni in September based on his artwork
Well done to Mac Donald’s.. you get some of the nicest young people serving you.

@RB68 Yes, this aspect of emotional distress can be linked to examination pressures. However, most recent studies link this also to social media and the stress caused by the type of 'sharing' that occurs on social media sites. @Dissimilitude It pains me to say this in the current Brexit climate, but I recently applied for a job (there were two vacancies). One of them went to a Danish national and the other to a Dutch national. I asked for feedback and was told that the other two candidates had better qualifications. I felt uncomfortable with that, not for myself at my older age, but for any young people coming into employment, who have to fight off competition from other member states.

Was going to say the same as Pinkblueberry. The blanket 'grades don't matter' is no more helpful that a blanket 'if you don't get the grades you're a failure'.

The best response is that it's a shame you didn't get them this time, but if you need them later you can re- take them. And I think that's a key point. I'm old enough to have been through a system where if you didn't pass your O levels (yes, that old!) at 16, there weren't any more chances. You were effectively written off. Now the education landscape is very different, and the door to qualifications is always open at any age.

My DS is autistic. He has just retaken his English language GCSE for the 3rd time and got a 2, down from a 3 the previous two times.

He does ok on the first paper every time a d bombs the second paper, the non-fiction. Last time he had to write about the deservedness of Fame, the idea being to reference "celebs" like the Kardashians. For an autistic kid who doesn't follow popular culture it was literally impossible. Fuckers.

Anyway he's in a work experience placement atm where they expected him to complete 1 script to help their software testing over the fortnight. He completed it in 4 days, ran it over the weekend and it all worked well, just minor tidying up. He has since completed their stretch objective and is now working on yet another coding script, doing treble the amount of work they originally expected.

If anybody ever says this kid should not be able to work in coding because he couldn't write a fucking essay about the fucking Kardashians I will tell them to open their fucking eyes and give their bollocking head a wobble. SERIOUSLY??!

You tell em abstracted..what a dumbing down 😡

It gives you choices. I have in-laws who never bothered at school, saw it as a waste of time and who think education is for snobs. They take pride in the fact they have never read a book. They are in low paid unskilled jobs.
They haven't encouraged their children at school and they are equally in low paid jobs.
And they moan constantly about immigrants taking all the jobs.

I agree with a pp who said it isn't nothing or everything, but somewhere in between. It will also be more important to certain people.

I also think that in the UK we have one of the least pressured systems but also the least resilient children.

They matter if you need certain grades to do a levels. When you are much older, most people just put x number gcses, grade a to x, on their cv or pplication form. As long as it includes English and Maths, recruiters don't analyse it.

Of course they matter, they aren't the be all and end all, but are useful. I work with a lot of 'successful' people, entrepreneurs and the like who can't spell or write a sentence to save their lives despite all the money, and I do think that they should stop bleating on about the fact they failed school and go and get a GSCE in English or Maths...

The undergrad courses with the highest average IQs for students are maths and physics. They are probably amongst the most difficult courses. But the entry requirements for those courses are lower than things like Law and Medicine.
Not true at all. My dd has just gone through A-levels wanting to do maths at uni. There are a number of A A A places for maths.

Oxford typically asks for A A A for maths, but A* AA for medicine and AAA for law as one example.

The difference perhaps is that you can do maths at a wider variety of places, so you can get into some places to do maths with lower grades. However it isn't always straight maths-"mathematical science" or similar.

The other thing about the statement "the grades don't mean anything" is often trotted out to someone who is disappointed. It's no comfort and in a lot of ways quite insulting to say that. You wouldn't ever say that to someone who's delighted.

In the good results level you can also have someone who is disappointed with what is apparently fine results. You can see it in the current thread about the person who has 6s expecting 8s. Most people seem to be saying "what's wrong, 6s are great". For someone who was expecting 6s, yes, that's true, but no one who was expecting 8s is going to be at all mollified by being told it's great results, and it's quite patronising to think so.

Dm was a teacher. She taught various people at various levels all the way up to degree. She reckoned the best result that she was most delighted about as an G. The girl's brother went off to do the same subject at Cambridge. He would have been disappointed majorly with a B.

There was an interesting article on the BB which said head teachers have warned that some lower-attaining pupils have been so disillusioned they refused to sit the exams or even their mocks.
Interestingly dm came across this when GCSEs first started too. She never actually had a pupil refuse to sit in the end, but the lower grades did get very negative sitting papers that they couldn't do most of it, and would get a low grade. Sometimes it took a lot of individual building up and setting realistic targets for individual children.

You'd be surprised. I am trying to career change into secondary school Teaching-I've been a social work team manager for the last ten years. I've got a levels and a degree. They are still insisting on my producing my maths gcse certificate from 1996. I can't find it. I've had to pay £200 to my now defunct exam board records department to trawl through and find my transcripts. Nothing has shown up yet. This will mean that I can't start in September and if it doesn't ever show up, I'd have to do my Maths GCSE again. I don't even want to teach Maths.

So grades do mean something. And certificates also mean something it seems, in certain circles.

I agree, they do matter for most people, even quite practical occupations require literacy and numeracy. Without advanced qualifications or a good apprenticeship in a trade your earning power is severely limited, its very different to 25 years ago when you could still leave without qualifications

There are always resits, adult classes, paths to achieve pretty much anything you want. So it's not the end of the world to not do fantastically well at aged 15/16, as long as you are willing to take a little longer to get to where you want to be.

*It's not that they don't mean anything

They just don't mean everything*

Agree

There was an interesting article on the BB which said head teachers have warned that some lower-attaining pupils have been so disillusioned they refused to sit the exams or even their mocks.

4 has been defined as a 'standard pass' hasn't it - so if you know you're going to get a 1/2 then is it arguably a rational decision not to take the exam (assuming this is because of lack of ability at the subject rather than not doing any work)? As a dparent I would think I might withdraw a dc from that subject if the dc wanted to (if the school allowed it, which I know is yet another thread!).

I agree that saying to someone who wanted an 8 that 6 is great is unlikely to comfort them, today at least. In fact don't some schools require a 7 to take the A level? so if it was a hoped for A level that would be particularly disappointing.

Some students just can't do the academic exams, my brother was the same yet he went on to be a successful plumber with zero GCSEs. I think they are important, but if a child has got bad results are you going to make them feel better screaming at them about the importance of the results? Be constructive, sometimes poor grades doesnt always mean the end of the world!

Dontsweatthelittlestuff
What a lovely post. You must be so pleased for your sons do proud of him too. I think it’s great when companys give people a chance when they might not normally be given one.

I go out my way to use businesses that are inclusive employers.

For every 'My brother/Sister/granny didn't have a single qualification as is now a gazillionaire' anecdote there are 1000 people stuck in low paid, no progress jobs because of a lack of decent academic qualifications unfortunately.
One thing I would say is that it is NEVER too late to learn or take a qualification or a GCSE and many adults find it way easier when they focus one one or two subjects, motivated and out of choice, than when they were in school hating everything...

They arnt it everything though and well done to the kids who have worked hard and achieved great results but there will be kids who have also worked hard and haven,t achieved great results ,people on here seen to think every one goes on t do A levels and degrees ,they don't .

Of course exams matter.

Try earning good money and having a decent life without having any sodding exams. Your in for a rough ride....

Maths and English are absolutely essential and you definitely need a decent grade in them even if you fail everything else.

Yabu I sat on the steps of our school crying hysterically wgen i got my exams, I thought I'd never get a course or a job. Did a course I thought I'd hate and got great job after great job. People need to hear that sort of thing because it's true- there's other ways