To think it's fine for lesbians to hold events without males and that Leeds Council shouldn't have banned this advert?

[LesbianMeansSomething]

A group of lesbians have organised a march which is just for lesbian women but Leeds Council have removed an advert for it because the event is "exclusionary" - specifically because it excludes male lesbians:

www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/leeds-city-council-bans-advert-16786033

AIBU to think that sometimes it is fine to be exclusionary - that in both an LGBTQ+ community and a wider society where we are a very small minority and are often marginalised, it is fine for lesbian women to organise and attend our own events?

In the past I didn't really see the need for a lesbian-only march and would just go to Pride but I have changed my mind due to the current hostility towards lesbians at Pride and within the community generally and all the messages from the queer community that deny our sexual orientation - eg articles about how to have lesbian sex with a penis www.autostraddle.com/how-to-have-trans-woman-lesbian-sex-with-a-penis-414839/ and books like "Girl Sex 101" where 50% of the 'lesbians' have penises twitter.com/daphna2011/status/1136040777614733312/photo/1 and illustrations show "progressive, inclusive" lesbians happily snuggling up to penis-having 'lesbians' twitter.com/saskeah/status/698144922889756672/photo/1

Why shouldn't female homosexuals be able to find each other and meet up without our adverts being pulled and without people trying to sabotage our events and intimidate us?

@Sarahisthatyou they’re not discriminating against trans women. At all. They’re excluding trans women as they’re not in that group.

Straight women and straight men and everyone else are also excluded. You’re not bitching on about that though are you?

Men who id as transgender can't be lesbians. Only women can be lesbians, with other women...

Twist language any way you want. Sexual attraction doesn't change it's meaning!

@Sarahisthatyou

So?

specifically because it excludes male lesbians:

How can you exclude something which doesn't really exist?

The poll 'should lesbian strength be allowed to advertise this march' is currently at 69% 'yes, of course'.

YANBU.

Too much and too many bollocks involved.

This is appalling.

If I lived nearer Leeds I would attend and protest about this, in solidarity.

I hope you are still spreading the advert via other channels and I hope you still match on 7th September. And I hope to God that you don't get any trouble at it. Stay safe sisters.

@ElizaDee just google AGP and you'll find answers. Many high profile men have now decided that they are Women, Caitlyn Jenner is one example. Caitlyn has has no surgery apart from breast enhancement This is a sustained campaign against Women and Lesbian women are at the forefront of this fight. They don't centre Men and that's the problem

I wonder if the lesbians with penises would have sex with someone with a female penis?

YANBU.

YANBU. I would say the event on the whole sounds like it's trying to be inclusive 'female friends are welcome to the rally'. So really they're objecting to a small part of the day, the march, being for female homosexuals. I bet no hetrosexual females (or males for that matter) have complained about not being able to go on the march.

@Aberhonddu They admitted to the council that trans people were not welcome. Doesn’t have to be written explicitly on the advert for it to be true.

The event is for lesbians. Straight men, transwomen, gay men, bisexual men, bisexual women, straight women are not lesbians, however there is a rally that female allies are welcome to attend afterwards.

You can chat all sorts of shit about lesbians excluding transwomen all you like, ain’t gonna make me attracted to any one of them, because I’m a lesbian. I would have thought it was unfair on the transwomen to tell them lesbians are interested in them, because we’re not, we’re lesbians. Everybody would be much happier if we had a bit of honesty. Fine you can live as you please, call yourself whatever name you choose and dress how you want, but you’re not female and lesbians definitely won’t want to have sex with you.

@templetonstunafish comparing the level of power and privilege lesbians wield with that implied by 'white pride' betrays a serious misunderstanding of the situation.

The shared lived experience of lesbians as same-sex attracted women includes only very recently having been recognised as a sexuality at all, and - like all women but with a particularly sadistic twist of homophobia - a whole lot of trauma from having penises forced into their spaces and their bodies. They have every single right to a same sex space, and as much right to self definition as any other group.

Yanbu. And ditto the hop.

This shit is scary

I imagine a white pride event might be similarly received.

In terms of the power relationships, it's more analogous to an advert for a black pride event which said it was not for white people being rejected.

Of course they should be allowed to have their own event.
What makes me sad is how many of my lesbian friends seem to be onboard with this. Loving Pride, Stonewall, drag, hating Glinner. While all in relationships with non-penis having lesbians. I wonder how much they are having to hide. I can't speak to them about it because I worry that they genuinely are onboard.

Maybe those of us who are straight women should demonstrate our support by gate crashing an event aimed at gay men and shouting accusations of discrimination and literal violence at them because their narrow definition of gay male doesn’t include straight women.

Christ almighty, this is confusing...can there even be such a thing as a trans lesbian? I have no issue at all with men identifying as women to some extent, particularly if they have undergone surgery - after all, you don't get your cock chopped off just to facilitate the occasional glance under the cubicle door. But penises in women-only safe spaces is a different matter altogether. Surely there's nothing stopping trans-women holding their own events. Isn't the best person to support and understand a TW is another TW?

I have always wondered about biological males who are fully transitioned - those who now have 'vaginas'. Are they tolerated in women-only spaces? And fully transitioned MTF who are attracted to other women - can they be described as 'lesbians'? If not, what is the right term to use? Please understand, I'm not asking this to be goady, I find it interesting and if I tried to discuss it with most people I know in RL, I'd just get 'Oh, they're all freaks'.

Please correct me if I've used the wrong terms anywhere!

@helpmeiamatoad
This is a march for Lesbian women, why should people that are not Women be included? This is not exclusion of Transpeople. This is exclusion of people that are not Women

". If anybody suggested gay men should include females and embrace mangina there’d be uproar."
This needs to go to these people. We need to be putting pressure on men too.
And of course straight men should be embracing 'hetero' trans women and trans lesbians themselves should be happy with other trans lesbians - I bet that rarely happens though!

Lesbians exclude men shock. YADNBU.

Transwomen can be lesbians, unless of course you the kind of person that says transwomen aren't actually women. Perhaps they could just let transwomen who want to go go - although I can;t imagine any would want to.

And yes I think a march of gay men refusing to allow transmen to take part would also be discriminatory. And yes I am a lesbian just not a trans woman hating one.

YANBU.

If it wasn't so dire, I would want to laugh at the term 'male lesbian'. You couldn't get more ludicrous.

Agree, utterly ridiculous