Why are some parents/families anti vax?

[Sistersis]

Just read an article about the UK no longer being measles free. Just trying to understand what are the reasons that some people are against vaccination.

Not being cheeky here, geniuenly interested. Sorry if this has been done already.

I don’t vaccinate as my in laws family have a history of being vaccine damaged. They all have severe digestive illnesses, ASD (Dr Wakefield’s ethics we’re at best dubious but his findings were accurate and have been subjected to a dark witch hunt and cover up) and other issues that myself and others believe are due to vaccinations. It’s about 50:50 of my dc’s cousins that are vaccinated or not.

My nieces and nephews have had normal childhood illnesses like mumps, whooping cough and measles and have got through them just fine with a stronger immunity and gut at the end.

If people want to ask me genuine questions then please pm me as if I stay on this thread it will disintegrate into a bash the anti vaxxer and I do t want to be everyone’s whipping girl.

FWIW I’m a degree educated HCP with over a decade of NHS career under my belt and not a conspiracy nut.

@RebornFlame

It's true that we still don't know enough about individual reactions to, well, anything. Food, medicine, vaccines.

Why do you believe their digestive issues are related specifically to vaccines?

I'm all for specific risk evaluations regarding most things, including vaccines.
For example, when DS simply wouldn't sleep well on his back as a very young baby, I looked carefully at the SIDS data and decided that he didn't fit into most risk categories and ended up putting him on his front, which was how he did sleep better. Better for him and for us too.

If DS had reacted badly to any initial vaccinations, I'd probably have been more careful with the following ones.

Unfortunately, we simply don't have the means to predict who will react badly to vaccinations or the illnesses and will still have to be a risk and numbers game.

In any case, I wouldn't assume that my child would have a worse reaction to a vaccine than to an illness just because.

ASD (Dr Wakefield’s ethics we’re at best dubious but his findings were accurate and have been subjected to a dark witch hunt and cover up)

It's not only the ethics that were dubious, btw.

You claim not to be an anti-vaxx nut, but then come up with that gem.

Dr Wakefield’s ethics we’re at best dubious but his findings were accurate and have been subjected to a dark witch hunt and cover up)

Stop telling lies.

@RebornFlame - he was paid to review the medical notes of a small number of children with ASD to determine if vaccines were responsible and concluded that they were. His sample size was biased from the beginning and his findings had no factual basis, there were no control cases and no other evidence. The GMC reviewed his case in detail before striking him off, they don't do that lightly.

@RebornFlame - I had a family member die of measles pre-vaccination by the way, let's add them to your sample group of 10 or whatever and see what that does to your statistics that mean it's all fine.

I’m not the one pontificating

Yeah, you are. But that's OK. This thread isn't really about vaccines. It's about angry people looking to vent.

And, yeah, I get that this is an emotive topic. I also get that the internet magnifies people's indignation on everything. But, still, some of the invective in this thread thrown at people who don't vaccinate is kind of unhinged. There is no decent discourse to be had here.

Dr Wakefield’s ethics we’re at best dubious but his findings were accurate and have been subjected to a dark witch hunt and cover up

BULLSHIT.

There is absolutely no evidence of a link between ASD and the MMR vaccine.

Around the time of Wakefield's activities, my children were born and due to have the MMR. I wasn't bothered about the autism aspect (I probably am autistic myself but can't be bothered to get a diagnosis now), but there was some reporting of there also being a new bowel condition.

It was the possibilty of the bowel condition I was worried about. Both sides of my own family have/had a variety of sometimes debilitating bowel disorders, and I wanted to avoid anything that might trigger this in my DC.

So, not being an anti-vaxxer, just being cautious, we opted for single dose vaccines. Then, once the DC were older and more physically developed, they then had the MMR. All other vaccines were taken at the usual dates, and if new vaccines came out now, we'd be in the queue for them.

DS did have a bowel issue while young, but has now grown out of it years later.

FWIW I’m a degree educated HCP with over a decade of NHS career under my belt and not a conspiracy nut.

If people want to ask me genuine questions then please pm me

Based on these two statements I think I know exactly which poster you are and, if I am right, you're a hardline anti-vaxxer with some very 'out there', dangerous pseudo-scientific opinions.

Tell me, do you believe in germs?

(Dr Wakefield’s ethics we’re at best dubious but his findings were accurate and have been subjected to a dark witch hunt and cover up)

Um, no. He deliberately faked the data by cherry picking the data.

The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud

The final episode in the saga is the revelation that Wakefield et al.[1] were guilty of deliberate fraud (they picked and chose data that suited their case; they falsified facts).[9] The British Medical Journal has published a series of articles on the exposure of the fraud, which appears to have taken place for financial gain.[10–13] It is a matter of concern that the exposé was a result of journalistic investigation, rather than academic vigilance followed by the institution of corrective measures. Readers may be interested to learn that the journalist on the Wakefield case, Brian Deer, had earlier reported on the false implication of thiomersal (in vaccines) in the etiology of autism.[14] However, Deer had not played an investigative role in that report.[14]

And his findings have never been replicated, just contradicted.

His sample size was biased from the beginning and his findings had no factual basis, there were no control cases and no other evidence.

What he did was a case study. There is nothing wrong with a case study, in itself. It’s a first port of call often.

It's funny how whenever anyone asks pertinent questions the tumbleweed passing through is deafening, or the same sound bite is thrown back in, or a new "I'm not against vaccines, guv, honest, but..." pp appears.

It's like under-the-bridge bingo.

What he did was a case study. There is nothing wrong with a case study, in itself. It’s a first port of call often.

As a first port, it should raise questions, which were investigated later by many studies and no cause for concern was found.

A proper study should be a case-control study, where the controls are properly matched to the cases.

Tell me, do you believe in germs

PM her, she said.

It's funny how whenever anyone asks pertinent questions the tumbleweed passing through is deafening, or the same sound bite is thrown back in, or a new "I'm not against vaccines, guv, honest, but..." pp appears

I'm an anti-vaxxer, but there is simply no way I would enter into a debate with anyone on here about it. You're all frothing at the mouth.

I would advise any other anti-vaxxers to steer well clear of this thread.

As a first port, it should raise questions, which were investigated later

Yes. Surely, the problem was with the reporting of the study, and the handling of the fallout.

HarryElephante describes exactly why I don’t want to continue the debate on a decidedly and aggressively pro vaccine forum. The vitriol saved for those of us that choose to parent differently is huge.

Venger I’m not the poster you’re thinking of as due to the above point I never post about my views on vaccinations.

Lweji, as I said I’m not going to continue this debate in public because it just turns into a mud flinging exercise.

I saw a great meme today

The gist being how to secretly despise your child whilst pretending to care about them. Claim everything you dislike is a "vaccine injury".

There's so much truth in that. The anti vaxxers I meet don't come across as very fond of their children. Enough to take out their aggression on them certainly

There's so much truth in that. The anti vaxxers I meet don't come across as very fond of their children. Enough to take out their aggression on them certainly

Good lord.

And yes. Being ASD I am very close minded on it. Vaccines don't cause autism so stop preferring the death of your child over a made up risk factor because youre that desperate for "normal" perfection.

And ps no "lord" either.

“it just turns into a mud flinging exercise.”

Actually, it turns into a fact/evidence flinging exercise. Trouble is, it only seems to go one way.

Harryelephante you said yourself it’s not worth it

I’m not going to engage with them anymore.