To be really really annoyed at River Island's treatment of my daughter at interview

[BadHairDyeDay]

DD17 applied for a job with RI - 8 hour contract evenings and Saturdays and would fit around school no problem. On Thursday she an email asking her to attend a "recruitment event" yesterday morning at 9.30 and to bring "proof of eligibility to work in the UK". Excellent so far.
So yesterday morning DD gets her National insurance number letter and I drop her off for the interview. As I'm walking back to the car I get a phone call from DD to say she needs either her birth certificate or her passport. I ask her what for. She says she was supposed to bring either one. I said no it was proof of eligibility to work in the UK, I.e. National insurance number. Birth certificate = proof of identity. Passport = eligibility to travel outside your own country. That was problem no 1 . Anyway RI had said she could come back at 10.30 with said documents and have interview then. So I made the half hour round trip home to fetch BC.
All fine then. But no. Problem no.2. At the end of the interview DD is asked when she can work (which she had set out in detail in her application form and was the same as the advertised position). So she tells them again and they say "Oh so you can't work XX?". DD says no. They say not at all? DD says sorry no it was in my application form and I didn't think I had to! End of interview!

So AIBU to be raging that they didn't ask for the documents they actually wanted at interview and also that we completely wasted a whole morning due to the fact that they didn't read my DD's application form properly and changed the criteria at the last minute anyway!!!!!
I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

P.S Sorry this is so long!!!

@BadHairDyeDay

You can work in the UK before your old enough to get a NI number.

Both my DDs have worked from 13.

They did ask for the documents they required OP by asking for proof of eligibility. They may not have specified exactly which isn’t ideal but a quick google will give you the answer - and shows that the candidate is proactive etc, as it’s not a hard thing to find. As PP have said NI hasn’t been proof of this for years.
So YABVU on this front.
On the other side it doesn’t sound like she’s definitely out of the running unless I’ve missed a post, often in interviews they will re-clarify what hours can be worked and if there is any flexibility there. Not great they didn’t read her application but I really wouldn’t go in all guns blazing.
She needs thick skin and to get over this kind of thing if she’s applying for jobs.

OP do you work?

I presume if you do you have been in the same job for years?

National Id card is not proof or your right to work.

Yours sons isnt because he isnt of age. Which the passport will show.

For right to work you need to show passport or birth certificate.

You're clutching at straws now op. No doubt you believe you and your dd have been hard done by (you haven't) and thought everyone here would agree with you (we haven't) so you come out with some guff about passports not being proof of eligibility to work because of age.

Quit while you're behind op.

It is annoying but I suppose anything that helps prevent economic migrants from illegally working here has to be a good thing

Thewholepoint of economic migration is that it facilitates workWhy would a migrant be treated any differently to an indiginous person when it comes to illegal working?

You've missed what the poster was trying to say not all economic migrants are in the UK legally and therefore they have no right to work in the UK.

RI asked for evidence of the Right to Work, most people that would be an EU passport / birth certificate. For legal migrants out with the EU that would be a Work Permit or other migration documents.

Any employers caught employing illegal immigrants will be heavily finded. So they need to check who they are employing is eligible to be employed in the UK.

Do you not work then OP? These things are pretty standard.

Arguing that a passport isn't proof of eligibility to work in the UK is being deliberately obtuse. The government produces a list of acceptable documents (which has been linked to several times on this thread). The point is proving eligibility to work in the UK, not of age.

Still, one good thing to come out of this is that I'm sure your daughter will go fully prepared next time.

Also it sounds like you were immediately argumentative when your DD called you explaining she required other documents, so it does sound like you’re more annoyed at your mistake and projecting it onto the company tbh.

You are right op my 2 year old son also has a passport but is not eligible to work. I pretty sure they'd figure that out from his DOB though.

YABU

I’ve always had to show my passport as proof of eligibility to work in the UK. That’s nothing new.

What were the hours that she was not able to do?

I believe it is now standard to provide this. When I started work with my current employer, it was not, so when we all had to provide evidence recently o had real problems - I do not have a passport so was told I could provide my birth certificate AND evidence of my NI number from a previous employer. Given that I have worked for my current employer for over 20 years, I found it really hard. By sheer luck, I found my first ever wage slip from my first job - obviously kept for sentimental reasons.

Also, OP, as far as I am aware, there is no age limit on working in the UK - otherwise, how would companies like Mothercare etc, produce their advertising materials showing babies? And we've all seen various dramas /soaps etc showing newborns. We have children at school who take time off for acting engagements. There are regulations about how long they can work, but they can work.

I work in HR. Proof of right to work is correct. She'd need passport or birth certificate with N. I. proof. This is normal practice and has been for a long time.

In retail I'd imagine they might have a preference for people who can be fully flexible, but that doesn't mean she won't get the job.

You are over reacting, I think. Just a bit.

I had numerous job interviews like this in retail as a student. They advertise set hours but then basically ask which other days you can work. As my uni course was full on 40 hours contact time a week I could only do weekends which was the type of job I applied for. They ask about other days to see how flexible you are as in retail that is what they are usually looking for. A person who can do the set hours but also do extra days to cover holidays or sickness is always preferred to someone who can only do the set days in the contract.

You always have to bring a passport and/or birth certificate for proof of eligibility to work. Sorry OP!

I work in employment/ compliance & eligibility to work documents must be a passport or (where applicable) a national ID card. Neither us or any of our clients would accept NI as proof to work in the UK. There are very strict rules & possible fines if this is not done properly.

As for working hours - RI should have absolutely checked the application form properly before asking your DD in for an interview otherwise it’s a waste of everyone’s time!

A national insurance number is not proof of eligibility to work in the UK. I have an NI number. If I didn’t renew my visa I would not longer have the right to work but my NI wouldn’t cease to exist. She was required to bring either proof of citizenship (e.g. passport of BC) or a visa/BRP which showed a right to work.

Now you're just being silly OP.

A passport itself isn't proof of right to work but it does show place of birth, age, full name and includes photographic ID. Same as a driving license.

That combined with an NI number is sufficient proof. But an NI number alone doesn't prove anything else. I could borrow my mums NI card if I wanted - it proves nothing as it doesn't have my photo, place or date of birth or indeed my address on it!

Your NI does not prove your right to work, it’s birth certificate or passport.
Your son comment is ridiculous.
Don’t blame river island just because you were wrong.
Of course they were going to ask if she could do other hours, its retail!
They want to know if shes someone to depend on ( she could easily have said i have college but during holidays/ xmas i can easily do extra),what about weekends?
She could have said she could help out then.

This is all relatively recent, last 15 years or so, since the government started expecting employers (and now landlords) to be immigration officers as well
I needed these things 15 years ago too

How else would the employer know your nationality without a proof like passport or birth certificate?
I am non national. I have UK NIN and UK driver's license. I have friends with NIN who are not in the UK anymore because they were here on visa for x years. Visa ended, they went home. They still have NIN because it's for ever.

@Oneoffname I think there are special exemptions for entertainers. Child actors exist in countries where there definitely are minimum age requirements for other jobs.

It’s frustrating that they weren’t clearer about the documentation she was required to bring. It is usual to be asked for photo ID at an interview though to prove you are who you say you are.
It’s common for interviewers to push regarding availability too to see if the person can be more flexible (annoying as it is when you’ve been clear in the application).
Unfortunately this is the way of work now and it’s best to commiserate with your daughter and take it as a learning experience for next time.
Getting a job these days is hard and the best thing you can do is not let her dwell on these type of set backs because they will happen again and she needs to know how to shrug them off and keep going.

Here you have the child employment.
www.gov.uk/child-employment

That's retail I'm afraid, they will never really want you to work the hours they advertise and need a lot of paperwork to prove who you are! Most employees have to sell their soul in order to make lots of profits for the likes of Phillip Green etc etc.
I'm sure there are a few good ones around still that care about their employees and are good but most are not.
I don't think it will ever change.