To be really really annoyed at River Island's treatment of my daughter at interview

[BadHairDyeDay]

DD17 applied for a job with RI - 8 hour contract evenings and Saturdays and would fit around school no problem. On Thursday she an email asking her to attend a "recruitment event" yesterday morning at 9.30 and to bring "proof of eligibility to work in the UK". Excellent so far.
So yesterday morning DD gets her National insurance number letter and I drop her off for the interview. As I'm walking back to the car I get a phone call from DD to say she needs either her birth certificate or her passport. I ask her what for. She says she was supposed to bring either one. I said no it was proof of eligibility to work in the UK, I.e. National insurance number. Birth certificate = proof of identity. Passport = eligibility to travel outside your own country. That was problem no 1 . Anyway RI had said she could come back at 10.30 with said documents and have interview then. So I made the half hour round trip home to fetch BC.
All fine then. But no. Problem no.2. At the end of the interview DD is asked when she can work (which she had set out in detail in her application form and was the same as the advertised position). So she tells them again and they say "Oh so you can't work XX?". DD says no. They say not at all? DD says sorry no it was in my application form and I didn't think I had to! End of interview!

So AIBU to be raging that they didn't ask for the documents they actually wanted at interview and also that we completely wasted a whole morning due to the fact that they didn't read my DD's application form properly and changed the criteria at the last minute anyway!!!!!
I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

P.S Sorry this is so long!!!

The documents thing just sounds like a simple misunderstanding. But irritating having to go back but no huge deal.

The hours thing is just them looking at who is willing to be flexible and when so they can fit in with their needs.

When I had a waitressing job I was 14 so obviously still at school. The job was mainly sat eve and Sunday afternoon which was perfect. However, I remember being asked at interview if I would occasionally also do a Fri eve (which was fine) and whether I was willing to do other shifts in the holidays - also fine.

Had I not been able/willing to be flexible in any way, I wouldn't have got the job because they sometimes need more staff on other days.

Your daughter may still get an offer from them but she can also look at other jobs and maybe be ready to say what flexibility she can offer.

Having a national insurance number does not prove your right to work in the UK.

A passport is the best proof for anything - it is a photo ID and proves right to work in the UK. It’s not that big of a deal. As for the confirming hours available thing - annoying but happens all the time. They’re probably trying to make sure that they choose the applicant who can be most flexible. Not really done anything wrong in my opinion.

So, she was unprepared and inflexible, and you're going to make a complaint to Head Office about it?

Riiiiight. That'll accomplish lots; namely, it'll get passed around and give HR a good laugh, you'll go down as one of Those nightmare helicopter parents, and your daughter will get filed under "don't hire, ever".

Your DD brought the wrong documentation and was not as attractive a prospect as people who were willing to be flexible. They're not obligated to consider her even if she can do the hours posted on the advert if other candidates can do more. They're not obligated to give her a job or even a pleasant interview experience. They're only obliged not to discriminate against her on the basis of a legally protected characteristic. Which they didn't. And if she's going to earn a salary like a grown-up, any interaction with the company needs to be done by her.

Simmer down and back off, or you'll do her more harm than this interview ever could.

Proof for right to work in the U.K. is your passport to prove nationality, or your visa documentation if you’re from abroad. I’ve never been asked to show my NI number at an interview. It’s always passport or visa documentation showing you have a work permit. I can’t believe people don’t know simple things like this.

It's probably because they look and sound "native", they feel put out that they have to prove it.

She needed a passport and or birth certificate. NI card means nothing.

Also no retailer will rota around a 17yr old. You can either work the hours they offer, any time of shift or day, or you can't.

If she can't then why even apply for the job?

Does your daughter know she hasn't got the job, @BadHairDyeDay?

A quick Google would have given you the government list of documents which can be used by employers to establish the right to work - NI numbers alone aren't sufficient. It was good that they gave her an opportunity to provide the documents and have an interview, not every organisation would do that.

The second issue sounds a bit of poor communication on their part, it seems like they required more flexibility than she could offer. Don't ring head office, it will be embarrassing for your daughter and River Island weren't behaving as badly as you thought.

Documents required to prove eligibility to work in the UK:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/right-to-work-checklist

NI number cannot be used on its own so YABU assuming it can.

Regarding the hours, it's an 8 hour contract but that's a minimum. They are probably looking for flexibility above this to cover other people's annual leave as well.

Learning experience for you both.

I have sympathy for the op. I haven't applied for a job in nearly 20 years because I've been self-employed since leaving my last job nine years ago. Not everyone is regularly applying for jobs.

Also if she applied for the job because the advertised hours suited her I don't think it's unreasonable to be surprised that they then wanted different hours.

LakieLady

My post isn't remotely harsh. What on earth are you talking about? Plenty other posters have said similar to me.

Passport is preferable, birth certificate is okay, NI card is not. Sorry that's standard but I understand why you mistakenly thought the NI card would work, they should have stated what forms of proof were required (unless that information was provided but you assumed that her NI card was okay).

An NI card doesn't prove she is eligible to work in the UK because there is nothing to prove the NI card belongs to her.
As for availability, it's standard practice to check applicant's availability. It doesn't mean they haven't read her application. It's to determine whether she has other commitments or just a preference.
Her restricted availability doesn't mean she definitely won't get the job. It depends on RI's needs.

Sounds frustrating that they wanted her to work additional hours despite her application, but as a seeker and recruiter i have heard of that happening many times from both sides. Either potential employer or employee pushing for more/less then stated in ad or application. Frustrating for both though.

The NI card was a mistake though and no proof, it could be anyone's. I'm surprised you both even thought of it, most people i know have no idea where their cards are and just memorised the number since they aren't useful at all. Never used mine at all, it's still on the letter!

Unfortunately I've found you get fuvked about up down and sideways when job hunting, and that was when I was looking for a professional job so I can only imagine it's worse at the less experienced end of the market.

Its shit, but sadly all too common.

I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

If your dd wants to do this, let her do it. Don't baby her and be that mum. Let her email and complain if she wants too.

National Insurance numbers are not proof to work.

The employer has to be able to match the proof of nationality to the person in front of them. Your NI number letter doesn't have your photo on it. How do they know the person with the NI letter is the person named on the letter? They don't. So they ALWAYS ask for passport, permanent residence card, other EU biometric passport or a combination of BOTH birth certificate and NI number.

This information is all readily available online. You assumed you knew and you were wrong.

You are in the wrong. NI card is not proof of anything its always been passport or birth cert. Always. Its always got to be photo id. And also retail work always want you free. You work out when you cant work when you already have the job especially in retail. They would never hire someone who says they cant work when they are needed its common sense.

The document thing is totally standard, a quick google would’ve prevented that issue, so YABU as DD should’ve checked.

The flexibility thing is also pretty standard especially in retail. Whether YABU depends on what they were asking. If a Saturday job with occasional work on Sunday then YABU. If an evening and weekend job and they want availability 9-5 Monday to Friday then YANBU. From your attitude I rather suspect the former tbh

And YABU for even considering complaining on DDs behalf. If she’s old enough to work then she’s old enough to handle this stuff herself.

I used to recruit in retail and although there may be a , say, 15 hours contract, they'd expect employees to be flexible for cover purposes and do more when necessary.

No flexibility at all would lose you the job at interview.

So she said she could be flexible, but actually she could only work the hours advertised? That's her mistake then I'm afraid. As was thinking an NI number (that anyone can get btw) was proof of eligibility to work.

Well, you advised her entirely wrongly on what documentation she needed so I imagine you’re feeling a bit guilty. The vast majority of adults in the UK would know not to take an NI number letter.

On the hours, if she’s said she can’t do Sunday or Thursday evening because of some activity then they’ll go for students who are prepared to be more flexible. That’s retail.

If she wants the job she'll have to dance to their tune I'm afraid.

There are probably loads of other young inexperienced applicants out there who will if she won't.

The requirement to provide proof of eligibility to work has been in the news for a long time - since well before Brexit and afterwards, since the issue of people working here without the right to work has been a political issue for several years. It's on you that you didn't realise what that meant. A national insurance number is proof that you have a national insurance number. You can get one on a temporary visa if it allows work; it doesn't mean you have life long rights to work.

The other thing is annoying but you and she need to get over it. Interview experience is useful and you getting aerated doesn't teach your daughter to be resilient in the world of work.